Tang bolt needed??

[Brad Foust]

To you seasoned builders out there?? I am a novice at most. I have beuilt a few from scratch years ago and the function fine, but I am far from what I would call a true builder.
My question is that I am building a 58 cal flint long rifle. I am having a little trouble getting the tang bolt thru to the trigger plate the way I want, and looking nice and straight.
I asked a friend, who is a more experienced builder a few questions about it, and he was shocked that I was even trying.
He said he never puts a bolt thru the tang to the trigger plate, but just uses a domed wood screw thru the tang into the stock??
I have seen a few guns that way but just thought that was a cheap and "WEAK" way out of doing it right. But he says allot of builders do it that way.
I hope I have not opened up a can of worms here, but what do you all think???
Thanks in advance.

 

[silly goose]

I've only built one so far. My reference materials all show to go throught the tang and into the trigger plate. Wasn't really that difficult. Do you have any books? I use "Recreating the American Longrifle", and "The Gunsmith of Grenville County". Both full of good info. I have read through them several times, and still glean information from them as I am about to start my second build.

I'd rather go through the tang and trigger plate than use a screw.

 

[Black Hand]

I have seen a few guns that way but just thought that was a cheap and "WEAK" way out of doing it right. But he says allot of builders do it that way.

It may take some fiddling, but getting the tang bolt in the proper position can be accomplished (I use a ruler to lay out the line, and adjust the angle so the bolt is perpendicular to the tang, and the head is square to the tang).

When he stated that many builders did it that way, did he specify who? I haven't seen a custom gun yet that had a screw holding the tang to the stock. As far as I can tell, it did happen on occasion (perhaps as a "quick & dirty" repair), but was/is a poor way of "getting the job done", as a short screw can work its way loose, whereas a long bolt secures the rear of the barrel/tang.

 

[matt denison]

Your gun should have a tang bolt that goes from tang to trigger bar. Forget the whole idea of a wood screw. That tang bolt does more than just hold the tang down. It creates a "sandwitch" between the tang and trigger bar that reenforces and strengthens the wrist of the gun.

 

[kaintuck]

a tang bolt IS needed to add strength to the area, to the trigger plate, and sometimes even into the trigger guard.
properly done, it is counter sunk into the tang so that the screw head is flush with the area. and done right, the slot lines up with the barrel :bow:

done a few rifles....but i will always thread the trigger plate and use a thru and thru bolt method!

 

[gunmaker43]

Here's a way, right from Alexanders book. Take a bolt about 1/2" dia. cut off head and file/grind a pencil point on it. Bolt it to your drill press table & line the point of it with a drill bit, for 10-32 use the tap size, make sure the points both touch with enough room between 'em to place your stock. As was said lay out tang bolt hole 90 deg. from top of tang. Drill tap size hole, transcribe a line down side of wood, carefully plot location of tang bolt hole in tgr. bar, drill it same way. Put stock in press with the point of your filed bolt in tgr plate hole. Center stock up & drill down thru woods 1/2 way. turn stockover and drill from bottom. If all was measured correctly the hole must be true. thread plate & drill & countersink tang for slip fit . try it on a scrap never hurts...Tom

 

[B.Habermehl]

When I am laying out my tang bolt location I use a large round headed lock bolt as a helper. I lay this along side the lock panel and the large domed head helps to get the bolt perpendicular to the tang top. This uses a reasonably well calibrated mark 1 eyeball to gauge the gap on either side of the bottom of the head. Even gaps equal perpendicular. BJH

 

[dlgraley]

I'm not a builder, but am successfully building my first Chambers kit. As is universally recommended, I drilled from the tang to the trigger plate. But among the books I have amassed, I have one titled Building the Kentucky Rifle by James R. Johnston. Contrary to what is always recommended, he advocates the screw method. He states that drilling through the wrist will weaken an already weak area. I did not follow this advice.

 

[frogwalking]

Yes. The tang bolt is needed...and is easy to install if you have a drill press. I filed and ground a point on a large bolt. Put this through the hole in the platen on your drill press. Put a drill bit the size of the hole you need to tap in the trigger plate (or smaller) in your press. Centerpunch where you want the hole both in the tang and trigger plate. Assemble barrel, tang, trigger plate and tape together. Line up the drill bit with the pointy end of the bolt you have in the platen and tighten everything down. Place one of the centerpunch marks on the pointy end, and the drill bit on the other and drill away, holding things in alighnment. When you feel you are most of the way through, switch and drill from the other side. This almost always give you a straight(ish) hole just where you want it. Tap the trigger plate and open up the rest of the hole with a clearance drill. Countersink the tang and you are done!

 

[frogwalking]

You can buy a Chinese or Packistani drill press for about what the jig to do this sells for at TOW.

 

[Birddog6]

Actually depends on what you are building & whether you want it PC or what. :idunno: Have seen them both ways.
I would guess that about 90% of the ML rifles being built today, you are going to find most of them with a thru tang bolt. Usually when I see wood screws in tangs, it is old original southern rifles & they have long tangs & several screws.

That being said, I want my tang bolt thru the stock & into the triggerplate. It is stronger, retains the breech down more secure, screw don't strip out if removed several times, it is just 100% a better way of retaining it.

You drill the tang & hole with a Drill Point jig on your drill press. You can mark the stock & drill by lines & etc., but IF you have a drill press, this is the only way to go.

Set up a drill point by clamping as shown, or bolting a long bolt to the bed of the drill press.



Insure you have the points aligned. Insure you have clearance to get the rifle in. Note the barrel should be fully Inlet & pinned to the stock before doing this.

You should have a ? 1/8" dia pilot hole in the Tang, and the trigger asm in the stock & it should have a 1/8" pilot hole drilled in it as well.

I have the triggerplate inlet & have the rear screw in the triggerplate to help retain the plate.

You put the tap size drill bit in the drill press, set the rifle in the drill press with the bottom point in the triggerplate pilot hole, drill bit is aligned to the tang pilot hole, & drill thru tang & 1/2 way thru stock.

Take rifle out & turn it over & drill thru Triggerplate towards tang til the holes meet. (Go easy so the bit don't grab & pull up on the plate. I usually have a small C clamp retaining the triggerplat secure to the stock)



Take rifle out, turn it back rightside up, change bits to Clearance bolt size bit & drill tang bolt hole thru tang .. TO.. but not... thru the triggerplate.

Take the rifle out & mount it in the vice clamping with padded jaws at the lock area. Take a long tap the appropriate size & put the tap down THRU the stock & tap the triggerplate while holding the triggerplate up & secure into it's inlet.

Now take the tap out & take the triggerplate out, take a few thousands larger than previous sized clearance bit & run it all the way thru the tang hole again, just to clean it out good & insure the screew will go thru & not bind.

Now put it all back together & try the screw & it should thread into the triggerplate.

Remove the screw & take a Countersink & cut a countersink hole into the tang for the tang bolt. Take care it is the appropriate angle to insure the head of the screw sits into the hole correctly.

When I do this, I have a adjustable Roller under the front of the forestock to support it. I also have a foot switch on the drill press (Woodcrafts) so I have one hand securing the rifle & the other hand on the down crank of the drill press. However, you can block the muzzle at the appropriate angle or have someone hold it for you.

I thought I had a photo of the adjustable roller asm, but cannot find it. If you need that I can get one & put it on here as well later.

Keith Lisle

 

[Black Hand]

It can also be done with an electric hand-held drill by drilling pilot holes from both directions (meeting in the middle) and enlarging the hole to the proper clearance size (but not in the trigger plate that will be tapped to retain the tang bolt).

 

[GANGGREEN]

Hey Birddog, thanks for the description. I've done a few builds previously but I'm working on one now and I'm ready to drill the tang bolt. In your description, you suggest that the barrel should already be pinned to the stock, is that always necessary or can you do this step first and pin the barrel later? Just curious what everyone thinks as I'm trying to take my time and do it "right".

 

[Staggerwing]

I'm just finishing my first build. I did mine the same method described by Birddog and others with the jig centered to the drill bit.
IMO, you should have the barrel inlet to the channel and the breech plug firmly against the back of the channel. Then, work on the barrel lugs and pin the barrel. Drill your tang bolt hole with the barrel pinned in place.

 

[Black Hand]

Hey Birddog, thanks for the description. I've done a few builds previously but I'm working on one now and I'm ready to drill the tang bolt. In your description, you suggest that the barrel should already be pinned to the stock, is that always necessary or can you do this step first and pin the barrel later? Just curious what everyone thinks as I'm trying to take my time and do it "right".

Pinning the barrel in position keeps it from "migrating" forward when the tang hole is drilled, tapped and screwed tight. If the barrel is pinned after, the barrel may no longer be firmly seated against the stock at the breech end.

 

[Birddog6]

I always pin the barrel pinned & secure to the stock before drilling the tang. I want that barred to stay put, right exactly were I want it. Same way on the triggerplate, I want it up IN the inlet, no chance of anything moving or slipping down & getting a bind.

Keith Lisle

PS: Years ago I did them by hand. I feel I do a more precise job with the drill press.

 

[GANGGREEN]

OK, thanks for the info then guys, I guess I'll pin the barrel before drilling for the tang bolt.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Be sure to countersink your tang while you are drilling the hole so you have exactly the same angle on your countersink as the hole is drilled.

I countersunk my first tang hole after the fact. Every time I tightened the tang bolt my barrel would move forward .10. I recut my countersink so many times trying to figure out what was going wrong I had to get the hole welded up to start over.

The last time I drilled the hole I countersunk while my gun was still in the vise, no barrel movement this time.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Good advice Erik. I had done the same thing last time and I'll get the appropriate countersink and do it when I drill through the stock this time.

 

[MikeyC]

Eric is very correct. Make sure you countersink while in the fixture. This will assure the angle mates with the screw.
Also make sure you have the proper countersink. They come in 82 and 90 degree. Most screws are 82 but not all. A Chambers vent liner uses a 90 degree.
I also use multi-flute countersinks. Cost a little more but don't chatter. They leave a smoother surface finish.