Tanner mould for 66 caliber?

[Tony Logan]

I am going to order a Tanner mould . I have only been able to find .648 balls for my 66 caliber and they aint cheap. since I have a choice of sizes with Tanner. Is there a more better (size) choice than .648 for the 66 caliber? I will be using mostly for close range deer hunting not competition.

 

[Sharps1863]

Does the barrel mike out to .660, if so you could go with a .650 and a .010 patch. But that is not that much of a difference in weight when it comes to the ball over a .648. If you go any closer to bore size you will have to use a thinner patch and that could cause some problems with gas leaking by the patch and ball causing a loss in velocity. Tighter the patch better the seal which means better velocity and in reality that's what you want.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The problem with THIN patches in those LARGER calibers is that the fabric can't hold enough lube to keep the patch from burning, unless you use a "wet" lube, and then its a 50/50 chance. I think you would be smarter to go .015-.020" Under Bore diameter( YES, measure it yourself- DON'T rely on anything stamped on a barrel!), so you can use a thicker patch material and still get a good seal, than go with a thin patch and the larger diameter ball.

Remember, that the patch goes on TWO SIDES of the ball- not one. Cotton compresses about 1/3" its thickness, in most rifles- less In smooth bores, simply because there is no place to which the material can move. If your 16 gauge rifled barrel( Nominally .662") is actually up to spec, A .015" thick Cotton ( mattress ticking, or pocket drill) patch will fill .015" + .015"= .030" MINUS 1/3 or .010 = .020". That would suggest a good ball diameter will be around .642-.645" in diameter for that combination of bore diameter and patch thickness.

Now, if you are regularly going to load an OP wad, or some other form of "firewall"( fillers, folded-over cleaning patches, Hornet's nest material, leaves, etc., so that your cotton patch ONLY HAS TO Center the ball, and not also act as a "firewall", protecting the patch from burning by holding enough lube, and sealing gases so they can escape around the barrel, tearing the patch, and melting the ball in the barrel, you can use the THINNER patch thickness. What little lube the thin patch holds will be used to grease the bore, and soften the fouling in the barrel for cleaning.

The depth of the grooves in your barrel should give you some idea of how thick your cloth patch must be to "seal" the barrel from the gases pushing the ball or bullet. To seal the bore, a cloth fabric patch MUST fill that groove tightly, meaning compressed, and then some. Square bottom rifling grooves require more compressed fabric to get into those corners, than round bottom rifling does.

READ YOUR SPENT PATCHES, ALWAYS. They will give you more specific information on what your gun needs in components, than all the advice we can give you here, I am sad to say. :shocked2: :hatsoff: :thumbsup:

 

[Tony Logan]

Thanks, I had difficultly loading .648 size ball with 18 oxyoke thick patches. I was able to shove them down with a 15 oxyoke patch. I like your suggestion of 642-645 diameter, I believe that will be just about right for my smooth bore.

 

[paulvallandigham]

As there are NO "Rules of thumb" that apply to all gauges, take this comment with some common sense:

The "Rule of thumb" for finding a RB to shoot from a smoothbore is to pick a diameter that is .0-20" SMALLER than bore diameter. However, this ASSUMES that you are shooting a Patched round ball using Cotton patches( ala Rifle shooters).

If you are shooting bare lead balls sandwiched between two layers of "tow", or leaves, or some other kind of wad, this rule cannot serve you well, unless the barrel is pretty fouled with BP residue.

If you are paper patching balls, this rule cannot serve you well, unless you find some Darn thick Paper. The paper used in the day is NOT THICK by our standards today, and the Ball diameters were larger than what we would choose to shoot today for BEST ACCURACY. NOw, a lot of the Paper Patched Balls in the day were not much more accurate than bare balls sandwiched between wads of Tow, again, until the barrels were fouled. This was because it was easier to make lead balls a consistent size, than to make barrels that stayed within a narrow range of tolerances for the bore diameters. Brown Bess muskets ran from .760( and some are even larger!)bores, down to .690"( and a few smaller). We can't say if all these dimension were ORIGINAL from the armories, but enough of these old original guns exist in collections in pretty good condition to suggest that bore dimension tolerances were not all that precise.

As a result, the ammo provided for these guns was intentionally cast much smaller. Again, these muskets were intended to POINT AND SHOOT at ranks of enemy soldiers standing a mere 50 yards from the shooter- not pick squirrels out of high trees, with head shots.

This was volley fire, and the survivors then charged each other with fixed bayonets, and fought hand to hand. To reload you had to "negotiate" that bayonet so you didn't STICK YOURSELF, get that powder from the paper "cartridge into the barrel, then stuff the paper patch, and ball into the barrel, and run it down the barrel with your steel ramrod, being careful AGAIN to NOT STICK YOURSELF on your own bayonet. And do it in a HURRY: After all, those enemy soldiers were firing at you, too!

Today, we use tighter fitted balls, and patching, so that these guns can be used to shoot in matches at paper targets. {Its been really difficult finding volunteers to let the shooters fire real balls at, and then, there are those pesky relatives, and the local police and prosecutors who have NO SENSE of humor about these matters, either! :shocked2: :blah: :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: }

 

[poordevil]

My Tanner mold for my NSW CANOE GUN in 16ga is .636 and loads nice and easy and stays in place. I like it fine.

p

 

[flintlock54]

I am trying to work through the 16 Guage patch and ball issue myself. My bore measures .665. I ordered a Tanner .635 after trying .648 balls. I had to use a short starter with the .648 and .010 patch. I can now thumb start a .635 ball with a .015 patch but accuraccy is no good. This weekend I going to try the .635 with .018 and .020 pacthes. I am also bummping up to a heavier lube instead of the lighter oiled that I used before. This plan is based some advice from Roundball to go with a thicker and tighter patch. I hope to report good results.

 

[tg]

For a smoothie I would go .018-.020 smaller than bore I have very good results with a .550 ball in a .58 bore I ussually use a .562 but you can always patch up, if the ball is so big you are stuck with a thin patch you maay not like it, bare balls with cards or wadding work well for some as well here the larger ball may have a bit of an edge.Smoothbore are different than rifles I would not be concerned about a real tight combo you will likely find as thumb start to be quite good with the right powder if you are concerned about a drop in velocity add some more powder, as I said a bare ball can perform nearly as well and as well for some.checkout Spence 10's website on smoothbores, lots of good stuff there.Most people use a .600 or .595 for a .62 bore so the same ration would work.

 

[Tony Logan]

I tried to take all this advice and combine it. I ordered a .642 for the .662 bore. I know I can work out a patch and lube combo to make this work. Now any tips on where to get good bullet making lead? Are wheel weights okay?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Find your local roofing contractors, and try to acquire lead they remove when putting new flashing on roof vents. Contractors who renovate homes often have to remove lead pipes, or the lead sheet that underlays many showers. X-ray rooms periodlically replace the lead they use to protect the technicians with new lead sheet.

Obviously, haunt the scrap yards. The Chinese are back to buying up lead, and lead prices are now back at record highs- over $1.00 per lb. Copper has gone up proportionally higher for the same reason.

Wheelweights are okay, but the antimony will cause the ball weights to vary, and you will also see larger diameter balls from the same molds, compared to what they cast using pure lead. Wheelweights are idea if you are casting large balls ( a few) to use when shooting at dangerous game, such as bears, or wild boar, where you want deep penetration more than expansion. A .642" caliber ball is already larger than most .45 caliber bullets will ever expand to after hitting flesh and bone.

If you use wheelweight lead, remember to sort the balls by diameter AND by weight. You may need to use a different patch thickness shooting WWs. But, since your chosen mold size is .020" smaller than bore diameter, I don't think this will be a problem for this gun. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Are wheel weights okay?

First thing, pick out any really hard ones, they're zinc alloy or steel. They'll also float on the molten lead when you're melting them down to clean up, but I prefer to keep anything zinc the h#ll away from my lead as much as possible. The stick-on lead weights are generally very close to pure in order to be flexible enough. The clip-on ones are harder for rigidity, more from antimony than tin, but if you melt them in fairly large batches, they should be pretty consistent, just lighter than purer lead. Some folks add a bit of tin to improve castability - something about reducing surface tension, IIRC - while others don't bother. Harder alloys will work fine in smoothbores, except that they won't upset much on game, but most smoothbores are shooting a ball larger than the expanded size of common centre-fire hunting bullets, anyway. As Paul said, some folks use this effect deliberately for increased penetration. In rifles, harder alloys often work well with a slightly smaller ball and a thicker patch.

BTW, the balls from a .648" Tanner mould work fine in my .665" 16ga bores, but I usually load a patched ball over my normal wads.

Regards,
Joel