Tapered-tang knives

[Black Hand]

I am interested in the timeline of trade knives/scalpers in the 18-19th century.

When was the tapered partial tang replaced by the untapered partial tang?

 

[crockett]

Well nothing is etched in stone so what I'll say is general in nature. There were full tangs, half tangs, and stick tangs. The full tangs had two scales, one on each side and the tangs tapered toward the rear.
The half tang also tapered toward the rear.
Most of the scalpers and butcher knives were half tangs. The butcher knives almost always (always) had a two piece handle and a half tang that was tapered to the rear AND to the lower (front) such that the rear of the tang was angled. The scalpers could also have a two piece handle however on a lot of scalpers they had a one piece handle with a slot in the front and the half tang (tapered just to the rear) was held with 3 pins ( about 3/32" diameter or 6d nails)
Stick tangs- I'm not so sure about- more a table knife or cartouche type. If all this is confusing- just ask more Qs.

 

[LRB]

Tapered tangs are most often associated with forged blades, whether half length or full length tangs. When it became practical to stamp out blades with machinery, the tapers pretty much disappeared in the cheap production knives. LaBonte could give the general time frame, but a rough guess would be the second quarter of the 19th c. However, there were flat non-tapered tangs in the 18th c., and even earlier.

 

[Black Hand]

Thanks Wick!
I'm also guessing that the length of the partial-tang varied somewhat depending on the material available?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm making 2 english-type trade knives for friends and am trying to maximize blade length (currently ~7 1/4 inches) while still keeping enough of a tang for strength. At this point, the partial tang is a bit more than a third of the handle but less than half (~1 1/2-1 3/4 inches). I don't see an issue, but I'd like to stay as true to the historical as possible.

The blades are forged from horseshoe rasp, with most of the file "character" filed out. Blades are ~1/16+ in thickness with a little more thickness where the tang starts to taper.

Planning for a 3-pin boxwood handle ~4-4 1/4" in length.

Thanks,
Albert

 

[crockett]

Black hand- the Smithsonian Institute has a scalper from Montana that was owned by a Crow and there is a ruler in the same photo.
so.......
You can download the photo, then blow it up using the ruler to get a full scale model, run a bunch of prints, cut them out and glue them on a blank of steel to grind out the knife to an exact reproduction. Plus the handle and pins, etc.
This particular scalper was an HBC blade, Fenton I think. It was either (in all likelihood) from the Red River post or Ft. Hall.

 

[Black Hand]

Thanks Crockett. I'll pay the site a visit.

 

[LaBonte]

this is from the MOFT Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook - an inexpensive and very valuable resource with scale drawings of period knives in the collection

I also have several photos of archeo dug blades with rulers included and will post them later.
Nathan Kobuck's blog has several dug blades as well including some with rattail tangs http://buffalotrace1765.blogspot.com/

also look back through his older posts for more info on period knives and much more.

 

[Black Hand]

Thanks Chuck.

 

[LRB]

Here are some pics of one made during the reign of king George. I believe it to be early 19th c., or late 18th c. Note the small pins, and the tang tapered to a knife edge, and about 2 1/4" in length.

 

[lonehunter]

Here are some pics of one made during the reign of king George. I believe it to be early 19th c., or late 18th c.

Did you buy it new? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Claude Mathis]

Is there a practical reason for tapering a tang or is it asthetics?

 

[Black Hand]

I believe it is because you jam it in a sawcut in a one-piece handle. Easier to do with a tapered tang, no shaping of the slot necessary.

 

[gmarc]

Production of stamped blades began in earnest in this country in about 1834, towards the end of the FT period.

This began at the Green River works in MA and these blades are still made.

Wick is correct that the forged tang fell from use, except on forged blades. Also of note is that the full-length scale tang became common with the advent of stamping and lower cost crucible tool steel.

The knife factories of the US were centered back east where water power was available to turn the equipment, soon supplanted by steam power.

 

[LRB]

The tapering was largely economics. A small section of steel hammered in a taper from both ends greatly stretches it out. Blackhand, I believe you may final fit a TT by jamming, maybe the last 1/4", but I would think unless it was being burned in, you would have a great risk of splitting the the grip.

 

[crockett]

I'm no engineer but from an engineering stand point it would seem that if you put a bend into the blade or tang- it will flex, or snap/break if you push too hard, and the breaking point will be near the middle of the flex-not the end, SO..... the tapered shape ought to yield equal strength while saving on weight and materials.