TC 45 patched ball combos?

[Carbmonster]

Howdy! I am a new member. I first cut my teeth on my stepdads TC hawken 45 when I was six. That rifle is now mine and I am working on a ball/patch combo and wanted to find out what anyone else with a TC .45 uses. I have some .445 ball and homemade pillow ticking patches, the thickness of which I am unsure as I made them from actual pillow ticking. I have lubed a few patches with bore butter, but haven't tried them yet.

Lead ball and other things ie. patches, powder are hard to come by in the shops here, so I will prolly have to order anything else in future. I have shot a number of TC maxi ball and maxi hunter bullets, and get good results, but want to tread the rounball path as they are easier to come by and cheap as dirt.

I like bore butter, and am not a home brewer of lube. This may make me seem like a noob, but I am not a hard-core holy black espousing kinda guy so please take pity. Just want to get a feel out there for anyone with the same rifle. Thanks a million to any and all... :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Welcome to the forum. Because of federal rules, retail sale of Black Powder is very expensive. Many cabela stores have it, but they are forbidden to display it out in the store. You have to ask for it. Most of us order powder from distributors, and have it shipped to our door. You can save money by going in with other MLers in your area to buy a case of powder at one time. The companies will divide a case into whatever combinations of powder granules you choose. Your best bet is to find a local BP gun club, so you can meet other MLers, and all solve your powder acquisition problems together.

In a cap gun, you can use the substitutes. However, they are expensive, and they can deteriorate over time when exposed to air, so that you lose the power in them. They burn at a higher flash point- almost double what Black powder does, and some of them will require that you use modern solvents to clean them, in addition to following up with soap and water to clean the rest of the residue from the gun.

I am not trying to dissuade you from your chosen substitute- whatever it is. If it works for you, Fine. But, you should give Black powder a try. That is what the gun you have was designed to shoot. It will shoot as well, if not better.

Paul

 

[ohio ramrod]

My boy's 45 T.C. Hawkin shoots fine with a .445 ball and a .010 patch and 40 grain FFF geox. But it also likes a .440 ball and .015 patch over the 40 grain charge. For hunting he can up the powder charge to 55 grain FFF before the groups get out of reasonable size.

 

[Carbmonster]

Thanks for the response guys. I have no real objection to blackpowder paul, though I do have some Shockey gold that I like. I have a couple pounds of Goex BP I Obtained about seven years ago when I was eighteen when I puchased a pieta brass navy for my first self-purchased gun.

45 grains really? I have been doing only sixty and above, but I will take the advice of Le Longue Carabine from the last of the mohicans when he told Uncas he used too much powder. Ninety is my standard fro maxi-hunters, but they are like 245 gr. bullets. Thanks a bunch...

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Couple ways to find if you are burning to much powder. Read your patches, shoot over something white so you can see the burning powder. Understanding that some powder is going to come out of the barrel burning it's the amount you are looking for. If it just a very small amount you are not really burning to much, if what seems like half the charge is coming out burning...

Not sure where I read this but my understanding is that a rifle barrel vibrates when a round is touched off. Best accuracy is obtained when the projectile exits the barrel in the same area of a wave or node. Best trajectory is obtained when that area is when the muzzle of the barrel is either flat or just slightly on the upslope. You will find that safe loads will have a couple of these ideal areas being available. The hunting load you want is the one that will result in the projectile leaving the barrel in one of these ideal areas or nodes that results in said projectile having the required energy at the extreme of the range you deem within your kill zone.

So you might have a target load of 40 grains that yields the accuracy or group size you want, a normal hunting load of 75 grains and a long range hunting load of 115 grains. Some people say you should start at a load that equals your caliber and others say to start at what the manufacturer says is the max safe load and work toward the other end in 5 or 10 grain intervals until you find the most accurate load closest to those ends. I figure to start at caliber minus 20% and work up and then go to maximum and work down, the low load will be my target/small game load and the high load will be my larger game load.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The davenport formula gives a maximum efficient load for a 32" barreled .45 at 58 grains of powder. ( 11.5 grains per cubic inch of bore) Even reducing the charge to 65 grains puts you slightly over the maximum. Charlie always recommended that target shooters begin at least 10 % below maximum charge, to find their most accurate 100 yd. load.

Now, target shooters are looking for consistency in point of impact- not velocity, nor "power". Hunters, likewise need to be looking at shot placement vs. Power. The .45 only shoots a 125 grain ball, so its even more important to shoot a load that you can reliably place the ball EVERY TIME within 3 inches of your POA at the maximum distance you will allow yourself to shoot at game. Recoil can become a factor, depending on stock shape,weight of gun, etc., even in a .45.

I would not hesitate to use a .45 to hunt deer, for instance, out to 70 yards. Beyond that, it would have to be an ideal shot in best of shooting weather, light, etc. for me to try a shot on a deer with that caliber ball. Where I hunt, shots are almost always under 50 yards, so using a .45 would not pose a handicap. But, I also don't need " Gee Whiz " velocity and recoil at those shorter ranges to kill my deer.

 

[410-er]

My 45 TC Hawken likes a .445 ball and .015 green stripe pillow and 55grs of FFFg.In my TC Senecas get 50grs of FFFg.

 

[Jim/OH]

I use 45 grains of FFFG Goax in my TC Hawken. It shoots very well with this with a .440 ball and pre-lubed pillowticking. This is used as a target load as I do not hunt with the .45 although it could be used. I have a .50 I use for deer. Never tried .445 balls in mine since the .440's will shoot cloverleafs at 25 yds. offhand. Enjoy your rifle. :thumbsup:

See ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff:

 

[cratwelder]

In my old Jukar longrifle...caplock, 440 rb, oxyoke prelubed patch and 45 grains of 3f put em on the money and have accounted for lots of deer skunks, possums, and other assorted critters for the past 15 years.

 

[Carbmonster]

Thanks for all the info guys. I am not new, but rather on again-off again at ML, and have never therefore devoted the time needed to become proficient. I plan to stick with it this time if we ever get some good weather down here in the Lucky 13th.

Looking to take advantage of our ML season next year so I can get a jump on everyone else.

Anyone know where to get parts for the TC to make it more aesthetically accurate to a real Hawken, or is that even possible?

Also want to get a GM barrel whenever I find one. They are getting scarce, and pricey. Anyone got a source? I really like the idea of more accuracy and the 'long-rifle' look.

 

[Carbmonster]

Disregard last.

I found the link to the Hawken Shoppe. Thanks again fellas.

 

[longcruise]

Anyone know where to get parts for the TC to make it more aesthetically accurate to a real Hawken, or is that even possible?

Nope, it can't be done. The only thing that the TC "Hawken" has in common with the actual Hawken rifles is the name. TC jumped on that name years ago. No point in trying to change it, IMO.

I got one in .50 cal back in '74 and still have it as well as a .45 barrel. I had a GM .54 drop in for it but converted to fit my GPR.

My .45 barrel shoots great with about anything from 20 to 50 grains off 3f. It would probably shoot just fine with more than 50 grains but since it is not a legal big game rifle here I stay low on the scale. I shoot .445 ball and JoAnne Fabrics #40 cotton drill for patching. What fits my gun and Joe Schmo's gun may not fit yours though.

 

[PreglerD]

Hello from Germany!

First of all congrats to your decision to go traditional. I vote also for real bp. In my .45 Deerhunter I use 90 grs WANO PP (like FFg), a .440 RB, .010" lubed patch and a spittled overpowderwad. I use this load for hunting roedeer.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[Carbmonster]

Thanks for the info. I might go with the steel parts, though brass doesn't truly rust, so I might stick with it. Glad to have all the help from folks. I figured I couldn't make the TC exactly like a Hawken, but I reckoned I would try to get it aesthetically as close as possible, or maybe I should get off my rear and buy pedersoli or like model. Glad to hear our German compatriots are still burning powder of some sort as well. Don't let the EU take em away my friend.

I have a saying in that area, If you try to take my guns away, I shall reclaim them from YOUR cold dead hands.