TC .50 Hawken cast conical

Hello All,

Quick version of this long winded post (more detailed history below the questions):

What commercial bullet/conical mold should I use for a TC .50 hawken muzzle loader, using 90 gr. Goex, and SPG bullet lube? Will shoot out to 200 yard max on deer. Enjoy steel target plinking.

WHat diameter should I cast a conical .50 TC hawken bullet?

To wad, or not to wad, if wad, how thick, what diameter and what materials?

What is the twist rate on a TC hawken .50?

Where is a ready source for exploded diagram/manual of the rifle, and can the back end of the breech be removed from the barrel?

How to get a stuck nipple out with out machine work?


Im new shooter of 50 cal Thomson Hawken, been shooting it for a few months, and tried the Maxi hunter 275 grain .50 cal #7885 conical bullet a day or so ago and it did well in this gun. Ive been normally feeding it hornady .490 round balls and a .018 pillow ticking patch lubed with SPG, and drop tubing 36" a charge of 80 and 90 grains of Goex FFG. lightinig it off with remington #11 caps.

I have no fouling problems with the patched ball or the maxi hunter, I can sit out and shoot the gun as much as I want without wiping it out. Had to lube the maxi hunters with SPG because they were so old, the lube on them had dried out to a hard crust.

Gun consistantly will hit a steel IHMSA high power pig at 200 meters, and consistantly hit the Chicken placed at 100 meters. The maxi hunter is so much easier to load, no patch, and seems to knock the daylights out of the steel targets.

Im in ignorance still, and am wanting to cast my own conical bullet, instead of paying 9 bucks for 20 slugs, which is outrageous. What mold works for this TC hawken? the maxi hunters measure .500 at the base, and .505 at the top. I am assuming that the soft lead is expanding to fill the groves when the charge slams the base. Ive been lubing with SPG, and have discovered that if I leave lube on the base, I usually miss my target and if I clean the SPG lube off base of the bullet, it shoots well. DO I NEED TO BE USING A WAD between the bullet and the FFG?

Im a traditional shooter, and not interested in sabots, copper jackets, powerbelts, gas checks, pyrodex, etc, so my solution is going to be a pure lead cast slug, good lube, and maybe a wad. I just dont know what the specs on the gun are. With my Sharps rifle I can drive a slug thru and alloy/cast according to my twist and diameter. I have no idea what my hawken bore diameter is, or what the twist of this gun is, but am assuming since its designed as a round patch/ball shooter, its going to have a slow twist, and therefore i will want to shoot a short, and light-ish conical? does anyone sell a mould similar to the maxi-hunter 275 grain 50 cal?

Next issue is dis-assembly, inspection and maintenance. It looks like the gun barrel is plugged at the breach and might be unscewed for inspection and cleaning? If so how?

I cant find any manuals and such online (purchased gun from pawnshop used). Stainless Nipple is stuck in the gun, I cant budge it and to get it out would probably mean heating up the area with torch, and re finishing the steel, or liquid wrench, or snapping the nipple off with the wrench and resorting to drilling, milling and tapping nighmares. right now its a "dont fix it if it aint broke" situation, but it drives me nuts knowing that nipple is rusted in there!!! Rust never sleeps, so is that nipple thread hole going to give way one day, and am i going to be walking around with a stainless nipple stuck in my head or eye?

The nipple being stuck in the gun tells me that the original owner didnt maintain the gun enough, but the bore is not rusted what soever, nor does rust come out of the chamber area on a patch. Note to self - if ever buying a Muzzle loader used, 1st thing to do is assure the nipple can screw out of the breech. Stooopid me!

I clean it and my shiloh sharps with solution of murphys oil soap/water/dawn dishwashing liquid/denatured alcohol. Works well. I oil and protect the gun with olive oil. I store the gun where the oil/dust cant accumulate and drain into the nipple and dry out.

Thanks for any info.

>>>-----APACHE<-----<<<

 

[roundball]

I'LL TRY TO ANSWER A FEW (INTERSPERSED IN ALL CAPS):

To wad, or not to wad, if wad, how thick, what diameter and what materials?

I USE OXYOKE PRELUBED WONDERWADS WITH ALL FULL POWER HUNTING TYPE LOADS IN MY TC HAWKENS;



What is the twist rate on a TC hawken .50?

STANDARD BORES ARE 1:48" TWIST;




Where is a ready source for exploded diagram/manual of the rifle, and can the back end of the breech be removed from the barrel?

THE BREECH PLUG IS NOT A REMOVEABLE COMPONENT FOR THE CONSUMER...SEND IT TO TC;



Next issue is dis-assembly, inspection and maintenance. It looks like the gun barrel is plugged at the breach and might be unscewed for inspection and cleaning? If so how?

THE BREECHPLUG IS NOT A REMOVEABLE COMPONENT FOR THE CONSUMER...SEND IT TO TC;

 

[cayugad]

Like Roundball said, leave the breech plug alone. If it needs to be removed let Thompson Center do it.

As for projectiles, you might want to try some R.E.A.L. conicals. They come in 280 & 320 grain. The 320 grain tend to shoot good and the molds are easy to obtain. The mold for the Maxi Ball I think is offered through Lyman Molds.

I purchase my Maxi Ball from Black Jack Hill. He can do a lot better then what you have been paying. I think he is around $11.50 for 50 maxi ball and if you get more then four boxes the shipping is free. He also sells some other projectiles you might want to look at.

Lee Molds sells the R.E.A.L.s they are good shooters for the most part. I have not tried them at the ranges you are talking . Might be a lot of fun though.

How much do you hold over to shoot that kind of distance with the open sights? :thumbsup:

Also, welcome to the forum and the sport of black powder shooting.

 

[arcticap]

I can't help you very much, but one would think that a stainless nipple would be pretty strong steel and not break before it will begin to turn after given the right dose of medicine. I've heard of shotgun chokes getting frozen and treatments included as you said, soaking in solvent solutions. What about boiling the breech area as well afterward before you go hitting it with a torch? Give it several days of treatments, then boil first. Someone who had their shotgun torched did have some discoloration and who knows what affect to their shotgun rib & muzzle, but what's the alternative? I don't rightly know. At this point your gun is ill, it's not really something to ignore and if you do, you're only risking further detriment to it down the road. :imo:

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Apache, if you soak the breech end of the rifle barrel in water that is hot and soapy for a while the nipple should come out. If it doesn't then I would used PB Blaster or the new formular liquid wrench on it tap it with a hammer after it has been soaking in the stuff and pull it out. If it still does not come out you can send it to T/C and they can do it and they probabally will not charge you unless it is an abuse thing.

As far as conicals I would start with the 370g Maxiball they were origionally made for that rifle and should shoot fine. Use pure lead when you make them or make sure whoever makes them uses pure lead. The REAL's should shoot real well in that rifle as well.

 

[BS]

"Im in ignorance still, and am wanting to cast my own conical bullet, instead of paying 9 bucks for 20 slugs, which is outrageous. What mold works for this TC hawken? the maxi hunters measure .500 at the base, and .505 at the top. I am assuming that the soft lead is expanding to fill the groves when the charge slams the base. Ive been lubing with SPG, and have discovered that if I leave lube on the base, I usually miss my target and if I clean the SPG lube off base of the bullet, it shoots well. DO I NEED TO BE USING A WAD between the bullet and the FFG?"

Wads have helped me with Maxi-balls in my 50 cal. Went from 3 to 4" groups at 100 yds, to less than 1 1/2", by using a 1/16" card stock. :m2c:

 

:front:
Hey, Thanks guys for all the info. Im amazed at all the good logical resources you posted, and I think all my issues are resolved from the info and links. Means I can spend more time shooting instead of googling and yahooing. Should have come here first. Ill post back usefull info as I learn this art.

Roundball,
I sat for hours last night reading your posts,Thank you for steering me in a safe direction, and the wealth of knowledge youve left on this board, Since you posted the line twice about not tinkering with the breach, , I wont waste your time and effort -I wont even think of tinkering with the breechplug, and if the nipple whips me Ill send the barrel off to TC, and buy another Muzzle loader to keep me company while I wait. Your tagline about flintlocks sparked my interest in them. and now That I know the twist I can make a more informed decision about bullet length and weight. (greenhill et al)

cayugad,
Thanks for info on R.E.A.L. slugs, and the links. I didnt know what they were or what they did. As for "holdover" Im not doing any of it. Im coming from shooting sharps blackpowder at 500 and 800 yards, and have a 200 yard range near the house, so I use the 200 yard range and hawken as a practice tool for shooting the NRA 200 meter steel chickens offhand...Then i got hooked on the spirit of the muzzle loader, and the patch and ball. Watching Jeremiah Johnson and now into the west has also warped me into antiquities as well.

The TC hawken has adjustable sights, and I avail myself to the convenience of them. I shoot a little to get the sights nailing my steel pigs and chickens at 200 meters, from a bench, then sit with cross sticks and blast away, or stand up and shoot like real riflemen are supposed to. If I load 70 grains FFG the round balls splash on the heavy pig. If I load 90 grains, then the critters take a dive off the rail and into the dust. In the future I see myself with a more traditional Smokepole, with period sights on the barrel, and maybe some kind of tang sight for plinking. Heck might looks at mods to this hawken in such manner, or maybe next rifle will be....a flintlock!.

arcticap, and pittsburghunter,
DUHH!! I never considered water torture on the nipple, and reaaly am grateful for these concepts and will try these before I get redneck with the torch and nipple wrench. My gun thanks you as well. :thanks:

BS,
Ok, im going to try a wad, after i settle on a bullet mould. SO im wondering, how do I get the wad flat on the powder wayyyy down that dark hole? With my sharps I use a compression die and crush the powder with a .030 cardboard wad, then I place a wax paper wad of .001 on top of the cardboard and then seat a bullet. Purpose is to make sure the cardboard wad does not stick to the base of the bullet. With a maxiball and a wad, do i need to adhere the wad to the base of the bullet and cram it all down the hole? I have confirmed that if there is grease on my bullet base, powder sticks to it, doesnt burn and the bullet flies to the left. I suspect a wad stuck to the lead wil have a similar effect?

This forum is a really fully stocked library, and you guys are a really great bunch of folks, Ive been reading and searching the posts. Thank you.

P.S. spellchecker didnt work on my browser,changes didnt migrate from the speelcheck window to the post window - so forgive the typos and punctuation Foh-pawwz. and....what is the .xx caliber designation beside every ones ID on their posts?.

>>>--->Apache<-----<<<

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

200 YARDS ????


Even though you can smack a steel pig at 200 yards doesn't mean you should be shooting at a live animal at that range with a muzzleloader. Not trying to be judgemental, but 200 yards on live game under hunting conditions is not realistic.

JMHO
Gene

 

[BS]

BS,
Ok, im going to try a wad, after i settle on a bullet mould. SO im wondering, how do I get the wad flat on the powder wayyyy down that dark hole? With my sharps I use a compression die and crush the powder with a .030 cardboard wad, then I place a wax paper wad of .001 on top of the cardboard and then seat a bullet. Purpose is to make sure the cardboard wad does not stick to the base of the bullet. With a maxiball and a wad, do i need to adhere the wad to the base of the bullet and cram it all down the hole? I have confirmed that if there is grease on my bullet base, powder sticks to it, doesnt burn and the bullet flies to the left. I suspect a wad stuck to the lead wil have a similar effect?"

I use the cleaning jag on the end of my ram rod and just push the wad down firmly, then seat the clean based bullet. I have never tried wax paper, never seen a need for it. :results:

 

[roundball]

Yeah, a good ML Forum like this is like the "Cliff's Notes" of muzzleloading...

Just a followup on the wad issue...I've always used Oxyoke wonderwads with high power loads, and as I mentioned, the .45cal TC Maxi-hunters are extremely accurate with the wads...can't say about other types of wads...have only used Oxyoke.

The habit I've gotten into, simply to save unnecessary strokes with the ramrod up and down the bore, is to push the wad into the muzzle, then start the maxi-hunter into the muzzle, then seat them both with a single ramrod stroke