TC Cherokee Hammer help

[codygoodman1337]

I bout my first Sidelock used today. It's a TC Cherokee 45. It seems to be in good shape except that when I pull the hammer back, it doesn't like to stay in full cock position. I know this has been asked before because I've been digging through posts all day. It doesn't seem to be any of the problems mentioned there and the seer isn't in bad shape. Again, I'm new, but it also seems that the spring is way too heavy. I'm wondering if it's the tumbler perhaps not holding the seer in place under massive spring pressure. I can take some photos of the lock if that would help.

I also noticed that once in awhile it does seem to want to stay in full cock position, but if I bump the set trigger forward, it will fire. Any help is appreciated. I'm going to be going to my first local muzzleloader group meeting Saturday at my local range, and planned to take it to let someone more seasoned take a look, but I thought I'd post here as well.

 

[SDSmlf]

I bout my first Sidelock used today. It's a TC Cherokee 45. It seems to be in good shape except that when I pull the hammer back, it doesn't like to stay in full cock position. I know this has been asked before because I've been digging through posts all day. It doesn't seem to be any of the problems mentioned there and the seer isn't in bad shape. Again, I'm new, but it also seems that the spring is way too heavy. I'm wondering if it's the tumbler perhaps not holding the seer in place under massive spring pressure. I can take some photos of the lock if that would help.

I also noticed that once in awhile it does seem to want to stay in full cock position, but if I bump the set trigger forward, it will fire. Any help is appreciated. I'm going to be going to my first local muzzleloader group meeting Saturday at my local range, and planned to take it to let someone more seasoned take a look, but I thought I'd post here as well.

Maybe post some photographs of the lock. Could be as simple as poor maintenance, loose components or possibly something is broken.

Have you disassembled and cleaned the lock, lubricated and reassembled it?

 

[codygoodman1337]

Photos as requested.

 

[ppg1949]

Will it stay at full cock off the stock? If possible, could you post a photo at full cock without the cover plate so one could view the sear? If Bubba50 is still on the forum, may be could jump in with his T/C knowledge.

 

[codygoodman1337]

Will it stay at full cock off the stock? If possible, could you post a photo at full cock without the cover plate so one could view the sear? If Bubba50 is still on the forum, may be could jump in with his T/C knowledge.

Give me a bit to try to take it off and get it to stay in full cock... sometimes it will stay but sometimes it won't.

 

[codygoodman1337]

I can't get it to stay in full cock now, but I took some macro pictures.

 

[necchi]

I've looked at all your photos. Nothing is damaged or broken, all of the parts look to be in good condition.
Now this is honest; Try some generous application of gun oil.
The top 2 screws of the plate need to be really snug/tight (always). That plate holds the tumbler and fly-detent in position against the lock plate,, any slop in that plate could allow the lock parts to "cant" out of position causing problems.
The pivot screw of the sear, should not be over tightened so much that the plate pinches the sears ability to move(it's a pivot point). The fly-detent needs lubrication to move freely,, that sear plunger and spring,, needs a drop also.
Locks need lubrication to function. These things are "replica" of 400yr old technology.
Same thing with the trigger assembly.
It's part of normal maintenance. Most light gun oils,, will within as little as 30 days need to be refreshed for reliable function.
With active use,, like a rendezvous or tournament shooter, locks and triggers should be fully de-greased and lubed every few weeks or even need daily care for the top shooters.

So use some oil, if nothing else try to go over-kill with the lube, as a lesson to your self, that thing should function just fine out of the stock.
(it's a learning curve)
And another honest thing; Cuddo's for taking it apart, many are afraid to do that!

 

[codygoodman1337]

I'll start there. I took ot apart and oiled it really well. It locked back one time then it stopped locking again. I have to leave for work in a few but that'll give it about 8 hours to soak up some gun oil and I'll report back tonight.

It locking back once definitely gave me a smile...at least I know I wasn't taken for a ride when I bought it now

 

[flntlokr]

I would be tempted to VERY gently take a file to the full cock notch, deepening it at the top only so the toe of the tumbler can get a couple of microns deeper in.

 

[codygoodman1337]

I would be tempted to VERY gently take a file to the full cock notch, deepening it at the top only so the toe of the tumbler can get a couple of microns deeper in.

I've considered that too. Even with no prior knowledge of muzzleloaders, that seems logical. I've built several modern rifles and that notch doesn't look notched enough to me

 

[chorizo]

Before you start filing, check the plunger spring and plunger (Item 342 and 342a) on the lever (item 341) to make sure that it is providing adequate pressure on the lever and that they are not jamming or fouled in any way. Makes sure the lever is moving freely and not obstructed by a burr or pressure from the cover plate.

Before messing with the sear/notches, make sure the pivot point on the lever (341) is smooth on both the lever and plate and it is not overly tightened down.

Simple things first before removing metal

https://cfnparts.com/image/data/Scanned Schematics/Thompson Center/Renegade.jpg

 

[codygoodman1337]

I oiled the little indent this morning. When I got home I can take it out and check for burs or build up inside. Thanks for the help

 

[chorizo]

I have worked a lot on SxS sidelock shotgun locks. NEVER remove metal or mess with the sear faces until all other remedies are exhausted at least 3 times. It worked coming out of the factory, which means something either has changed, gummed up or needs tuning rather than "re-work"

See the shiny areas on the face of lever (341) forward of the plunger but before the pivot point? That tells me it is rubbing against the plate. Polishing that may help.

 

[codygoodman1337]

I have worked a lot on SxS sidelock shotgun locks. NEVER remove metal or mess with the sear faces until all other remedies are exhausted at least 3 times. It worked coming out of the factory, which means something either has changed, gummed up or needs tuning rather than "re-work"

Would you think perhaps the spring isn't putting enough pressure on the lever? I saw somewhere else in the forum that it's possible to use the spring out of a ballpoint pen. Maybe it needs a few coils longer to add more down pressure?

 

[chorizo]

That and the plate seems to be rubbing on the lever. Polish (stone it lightly) the lever area first and see where it is rubbing on the plate and do the same there; clean the spring and plunger to make sure they are not hindered in any way. If that doesn't work then try the spring. For some reason it isn't fully engaging the notch. I am inclined to believe that something mechanical is hindering the full engagement and it may be a combination of all of the above,...rough contact, plate contacting too tightly and a slightly weak spring. Try all of those first before you remove metal that cannot be replaced.

 

[codygoodman1337]

So I should polish this area? It does seem to look like there are some rub marks on this area of the plate now that you mention it.

 

[chorizo]

Can't hurt. All of those things together might reduce the friction/impedance enough that things work properly and none of those actions will be an "irretrievable" act like messing with the notch.

If none of those things work, then you can start thinking about doing other things like messing with the engagement faces/notch depth.

Make all those areas smooth (mild stoning) and see what that gives you.

This area below was what I was specifically talking about previously and the plate that sits on top of it.

Lay it flat on a stone and rub it smooth a little at a time.

 

[TNTraveler]

could the problem be with the trigger adjustment

 

[codygoodman1337]

could the problem be with the trigger adjustment

Tried that several times. Didn't seem to change anything sadly. I'm still new so I'm not sure I'm a fan of the set trigger yet, but I don't wanna get rid of it

 

[flntlokr]

I've considered that too. Even with no prior knowledge of muzzleloaders, that seems logical. I've built several modern rifles and that notch doesn't look notched enough to me

Just looking at your pictures, the angle of the face seems a bit off. I think it should be on the radius from the pivot point. That looks a bit 'open'. Use a jeweller's file, then polish the face with something like an Arkansas stone. I don't think it needs any more depth. If you want, I can take a pic of one of my Seneca locks (same?) to compare.