TC Hawken flinter

[FJTBONE]

I just picked one up in great shape but with a 4 digit serial number. Would that indicate a much older rifle? It is not a kit. Thanks.

 

[Matt85]

not sure about repros ages but i wouldnt consider any of them to be "old". to quallify as "old" in the muzzleloading business its gotta be at least 100 years old.

hopefully someone who knows TC's will chime in soon.

-Matt

 

[FJTBONE]

Matt, I definitely wouldnt think it would be really old as opposed to maybe an early edition
of the TC Hawken. I have heard from another member
and have sent him more info. will let you know if he finds any info Thanks, Frank

 

[don hepler]

Yes, I believe that 4 digits would incicate one of the early production TC Hawkens. There are other indicators, such as, there should be a heart or spade stamped on the underside of the barrel, near the breech. I have heard that early guns, had barrels made by prominate barrel makers, like Douglas or Hart. Usally the comb of the stock comes up to a sharper point and the grip is a little thinner. Even the cheek piece is more pronounced.The brass piece on the left side, where the lock bolt goes in is in-set into the wood, later guns have a more decorative washer, that sat on top of the wood. The brass pieces on the fore stock are plain, later models are more decorative. The rear sights are different, with different hole spacing, than on newer models.

I'm no expert on TC's but I own 5 Hawkens,3 Renegades, and a Seneca, and a Patriot pistol.

I changed the frizzen and cock on my older Hawken, to the newer cock and frizzen. I changed the vent liner to the newer liner that uses an allen head vs. straight blade screw driver. These changes have made it as reliable as a custom lock.

 

[ebiggs1]

With the ability to exchange most of the parts on any TC, including the barrel, I don't know if it means anything. But if it is an untouched gun which has the old style lock, it is certainly an early rifle.

 

[stude 283]

Hadden,
You mentioned you changed the frizzen and cock on your old style tc.Was your old lock functioning as it was supposed to?If so did you see enough improvement to justify the $50 for parts.I sent mine back to tc to be updated,but unfortunately I waited till after the move.They sent it back as sent with a couple of their cut agate flints, and said it functioned fine.I got about a 50% firing rate with those flints,but when I went back to Rich Pierces flints it fires reliably now,though not quite as fast as I'd like.Do you think you gained enough to justify the expense?

 

[ebiggs1]

These changes have made it as reliable as a custom lock.

WOW, how dare you say that. :shocked2:
But how right you are! :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

You didn't direct this to me but if I may supply you with an answer, yes it is.
However as long as the lock you have is working, it isn't a real necessity. I have an original old style lock that is functioning well in spite of what you read here.
You need to learn whom to trust for some answers. Unfortunately there are agenda driven folks that go on mere looks rather than performance.

The touch hole liner is another story. Replace it as soon as possible with the new style. I consider that mandatory upgrade.
Use only black English flints, too!

 

[don hepler]

Well, I was new to Flintlocks when I bought the TC Hawken, it was my first flintlock. The only flints I had was a sandwich bag with a few cut flints. The gun was used and came with some accessories. Several months later I went to Dixon's gun fair and bought a Tip Curtis custom long rifle and some of Tip's black flints. It was several months later, and after reading on this forum that I realized that there were a newer cock and frizzen on the later Hawken rifles. I called Thompson Center and ask to "Purchase" a new cock and frizzen, the lady that answered said no need in that, sent us the lock. I mailed them the lock, and within a couple of weeks, I received a complete new lock,at no cost. To be fair, I did not have enough experience, with locks, to know the difference. Based on what I read here, I figured, if there was a chance I'd have a problem I might as well get things right to start. They kept the old cock and frizzen, so now I will never know. I got a lot better ignition after the change, but was it the flints,or that I was learning from reading on this forum, or shooting the custom rifle, who can say, with certainty.

No one in this area, that I know personally, shoots flintlocks, I had to learn from this forum, and to that I am very thankful.

I am enjoying shooting the rifles and the oppertunity to chat about the traditional shooting subjects on this forum. Thanks

 

[stude 283]

Hadden,
Thanks for the info.You must have sent yours back before S&W took over.When i emailed TC I was told the same thing,just send it in and they would update.I then learned of the impending move and decided to wait so it did not get lost in the move.I don't know whether I'm a worry wart or an idiot,but I sure screwed myself.Like I said it was about 50% the way they sent it back.The old TC A+,the new D-.

 

[stude 283]

ebiggs,
Thanks for your help.I had already changed vent liners after getting lock back from TC.I really did not notice much difference,although I think my liner was drilled larger earlier.It wanted to self prime with 3f with the old,better with new style.The TC lock just seems to have more lag time than my other 2 flinters and I wondered if the upgrade might help.

 

[Geraldo]

ebiggs,
The TC lock just seems to have more lag time than my other 2 flinters and I wondered if the upgrade might help.

I've only got the new style locks at this time, and they are not as fast as the Silers on a friend's rifles. I don't have measuring equipment to tell you how much difference there is, but it is noticeable when you shoot them side by side. If I went back and forth it would probably bug me, but they're the only flinters I have so I don't really notice.

 

[stude 283]

ebiggs again,
I forgot in the last post.Do you think the black english work better in the TC lock?What size do you use.Track of the wolf ok for supply?Using 3/4"x3/4" Rich Pierce now,a whole lot better than TC cut agate.

 

[FJTBONE]

Can you tell me where you got the vent liner?

 

[stude 283]

Thompson calls them touch hole bushings, #7327,2 to a pack.search for this at your favorite supplier.Or here.Seemed to be a lot more available a year ago.It looks like TC stuff is going to be hard to get from here on,hopefully not. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/726021/thompson-center-touch-hole-bushing-pack-of-2

 

[Greg Blackburn]

I bought two vent hole liners, allen head type, from The Possibles Shop online.

Greg

 

[ebiggs1]

ebiggs,
Thanks for your help.I had already changed vent liners after getting lock back from TC.I really did not notice much difference,although I think my liner was drilled larger earlier.It wanted to self prime with 3f with the old,better with new style.The TC lock just seems to have more lag time than my other 2 flinters and I wondered if the upgrade might help.

I don't believe there is a difference in the main springs but the cock is different. It has to affect the lock speed, at least one would think so. Personally I can not tell a difference.

The touch hole should be .070. A few grains of 3F may fall through it bit not many, at least nowhere near priming the pan!

 

[ebiggs1]

ebiggs again,
I forgot in the last post.Do you think the black english work better in the TC lock?What size do you use.Track of the wolf ok for supply?Using 3/4"x3/4" Rich Pierce now,a whole lot better than TC cut agate.

I believe Black English and Rich Pierce flints to be nearly equal. I may give Black English flints a small advantage. Mr. Pierce's flints have been hard to get for awhile. Maybe he is better and making them again.
Use the largest flint you can get into the lock. I use ¾ x 7/8. A little wider than the frizzen is OK, too.
The average flint will go 30 to 50 strikes and some go way beyond that. It depends on the flint and it's shape. When I flatten my flints they average well beyond 50 strikes.
Use thick (1/8th”) leather not lead wraps.

 

[ebiggs1]

I've only got the new style locks at this time, and they are not as fast as the Silers on a friend's rifles. I don't have measuring equipment to tell you how much difference there is, but it is noticeable when you shoot them side by side.

This is really curious because I have done this “test” many times when someone comes over and I get them interested in shooting. They almost always pick the TC as the fastest. I never tell them there is some difference in locks or anything for that matter. They don't have that preconceived notion that TC is supposed to be junk, like you may have concluded from reading this forum.

If I went back and forth it would probably bug me, but they're the only flinters I have so I don't really notice.

If you went back and forth, you WOULD notice the difference and may conclude differently. Are you sure your lock is working perfectly and lubed properly and is clean?
Actually they is a difference in the feel of the two locks and L&R, Davis locks also. But I think it is due to the different feel of the leaf spring vs the coil spring.

 

[ebiggs1]

I must confess my favorite gun is a hybrid. It has some TC parts on it but it has some aftermarket parts also. :bow:

If I could get a Jim Chambers lock to fit that rifle I would do it in a heart beat. :thumbsup:

But, nevertheless the facts are the facts. :hmm:

There is no doubt, Jim Chambers is the best lock you can buy. But I suspect it is because of Jim Chambers himself. His attention to quality is the best there is.