TC Hawken Great Plains Conical Fit

[Little Brother]

Hi all, I'm curious about trying out some conicals in my TC Hawken rifle. I'm a round ball guy and have never ventured too far off that path. How should the conical fit in the barrel? I've seen Idaho Lewis say he pushes them down with his thumb and doesn't need to use very much pressure to seat them. Is that accurate in general or does it just depend on the brand etc?

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

I primarily shoot Conicals, Hornady Great Plains as well as TC Maxi-Ball. I start them with my thumb and most times once the highest band contacts the crown they require a little help from the starter. Once in awhile I am able to start it fully with my thumb. None of my TCs have the QL muzzle

 

[Little Brother]

I primarily shoot Conicals, Hornady Great Plains as well as TC Maxi-Ball. I start them with my thumb and most times once the highest band contacts the crown they require a little help from the starter. Once in awhile I am able to start it fully with my thumb. None of my TCs have the QL muzzle

Thank you. I guess im jist wondering if a .50 cal Great Plains, for inatance, will fit all .50 cal barrels or if there are specific parameters that may need to be met per rifle. What's a QL muzzle?

 

[Omega218r]

I had a .54 barrel that shot the Great Plains well once I used half of a cotton ball as an over powder wad. The conical took a bit to start as the top band grabbed the rifling if that makes sense. Once started it slid down quite easily

 

[ElkStalker]

I have a 50cal Hawken and a 50cal Renegade. The Hawken barrel is a bit looser than the renegade. The GP bullet fits the Hawken a bit easier, but the Renegade is real chore. I almost made a post about this last night after yesterdays range session. I have to really smack my short starter to get that last band to engrave. I mean, smack it with all I have, short of using a mallet. It’s real tough. 1 out of 4 gets mangled in the process, even though I’m careful of how I position the short starter. (Not good if you need a fast follow up). They don’t shoot very well from either of my rifles - 4-5” 100 yard groups using a 54cal OP Wad. I really wanted these to work, but they aren’t real reliable in my rifles. I used them in a Lyman GP hunter fast twist and they shot clover leafs all day long (should have kept that rifle). I bought some hand cast Maxi-balls from a well-known retailer that shoot 2” 100yrd groups that are so loose, they are almost slip fit. Last band very lightly engraved the rifling, so light that I can seat them with my thumb and follow up with the tan rod, not short starter needed. Makes me a bit nervous to hunt with those. I think I’m going to buy the necessary equipment and cast my own REAL bullets.
Anyway, you won’t know how they are going to fit your your rifle, or shoot in your rifle, until you try them. I just bought them for $11 a box so it’s not a huge loss if you decide you don’t like them.

 

[BillRob]

I hope that the REAL bullets work well for you. I tried them years ago in my .54 and they were just about impossible to load. They shot well but loading was such work that I gave up on them.

 

[ElkStalker]

I hope that the REAL bullets work well for you. I tried them years ago in my .54 and they were just about impossible to load. They shot well but loading was such work that I gave up on them.

I have tried them with really good results. Unfortunately the place I was buying them can’t source them anymore because the guy who was casting the bullets passed away. I wonder if the ones you had weren’t a little harder than pure lead. They did great in my really tight bore Renegade. I have 5 left but that’s hardly enough to develope a load with after having my muzzle crowned. A couple of really nice folks on this platform have offered to sell me some samples, but I didn’t jump on it because I had a very short time to find something that would work before elk season opened on the 15th.

 

[BillRob]

I have tried them with really good results. Unfortunately the place I was buying them can’t source them anymore because the guy who was casting the bullets passed away. I wonder if the ones you had weren’t a little harder than pure lead. They did great in my really tight bore Renegade. I have 5 left but that’s hardly enough to develope a load with after having my muzzle crowned. A couple of really nice folks on this platform have offered to sell me some samples, but I didn’t jump on it because I had a very short time to find something that would work before elk season opened on the 15th.

Good luck on the elk season! Our's starts this Friday. I got a .58 Kibler Colonial this summer but haven't really gotten confident with it - so it's back to the old .54 Hawken!

 

[ElkStalker]

Good luck on the elk season! Our's starts this Friday. I got a .58 Kibler Colonial this summer but haven't really gotten confident with it - so it's back to the old .54 Hawken!

Thank you! Good luck you you as well. That is a real nice rifle. Nothing wrong with a 54 Hawken, but that Kibler Colonial raises the bar. I’ve been drooling over those for awhile. I’m half tempted to sell off some and put the money towards one. Some day!!!

 

[SwanShot]

I've used REALs with good results, but I cast my own and I'm very careful.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

Thank you. I guess im jist wondering if a .50 cal Great Plains, for inatance, will fit all .50 cal barrels or if there are specific parameters that may need to be met per rifle. What's a QL muzzle?

Quick Load muzzle. The rifling ends about 1/2" or so from the muzzle to make loading easier. It's generally hated here from what I see.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

I have a 50cal Hawken and a 50cal Renegade. The Hawken barrel is a bit looser than the renegade. The GP bullet fits the Hawken a bit easier, but the Renegade is real chore. I almost made a post about this last night after yesterdays range session. I have to really smack my short starter to get that last band to engrave. I mean, smack it with all I have, short of using a mallet. It’s real tough. 1 out of 4 gets mangled in the process, even though I’m careful of how I position the short starter. (Not good if you need a fast follow up). They don’t shoot very well from either of my rifles - 4-5” 100 yard groups using a 54cal OP Wad. I really wanted these to work, but they aren’t real reliable in my rifles. I used them in a Lyman GP hunter fast twist and they shot clover leafs all day long (should have kept that rifle). I bought some hand cast Maxi-balls from a well-known retailer that shoot 2” 100yrd groups that are so loose, they are almost slip fit. Last band very lightly engraved the rifling, so light that I can seat them with my thumb and follow up with the tan rod, not short starter needed. Makes me a bit nervous to hunt with those. I think I’m going to buy the necessary equipment and cast my own REAL bullets.
Anyway, you won’t know how they are going to fit your your rifle, or shoot in your rifle, until you try them. I just bought them for $11 a box so it’s not a huge loss if you decide you don’t like them.

Makes sense to me. The Great Plains bullets run a bit heavy for caliber size and may be pushing the threshold of the 1:48 twist rate for good stabilization. The lighter 320gr TC Maxi-Ball shoots well from my daughter's New Englander and they shoot exceptionally well from my Hawken.

 

[embrr2]

I got some 54 REAL for my Lyman GPR. I got the short 300 grain, for my slow twist. But they just fall in. Need to paper patch. Shot couple with .010 patch Then gave up, didn’t have the time to work up a load. They did shoot ok, didn’t tumble.
Nothing wrong with a PRB, I just keep chasing bigger and better.

 

[gunpa]

Don't overlook No Excuses conicals. They have lots of options. Go online and check them out.

 

[Crazdgunman]

Hi all, I'm curious about trying out some conicals in my TC Hawken rifle. I'm a round ball guy and have never ventured too far off that path. How should the conical fit in the barrel? I've seen Idaho Lewis say he pushes them down with his thumb and doesn't need to use very much pressure to seat them. Is that accurate in general or does it just depend on the brand etc?

I use the Hornady Great Plains bullets in my TC Hawken with great success. Their base seems to slip into the bore to stabilize a firm push from my short starter. They’re a bit to tight for a thumb to seat, but they load easily.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Normally, a minie ball can be pushed down the muzzle with the thumb, but a Maxi-Ball or a REAL bullet will need a bump from the short starter. This is due to the differences of how the bullet engages the rifling. I shoot .54 minie balls from a Lee mould and .36 maxi-balls from a Lyman mould with great results.

 

[stikshooter]

I hope that the REAL bullets work well for you. I tried them years ago in my .54 and they were just about impossible to load. They shot well but loading was such work that I gave up on them.

Like the Lee REAL the Great Plains and the Lyman Plains engrave upon loading , Pure is mandatory for easy loading and 40-1 /30-1 for ease of mind if concerned about sliding off the charge (your bore) will tell you!!!/Ed

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thank you. I guess im jist wondering if a .50 cal Great Plains, for inatance, will fit all .50 cal barrels or if there are specific parameters that may need to be met per rifle. What's a QL muzzle?

A 50 caliber conical bullet will not necessarily fit all 50 caliber barrels as there is no standard dimension used for all 50 caliber barrels. Dimensions change due to number of lands, manufacturing processes, either cut rifling or button rifling that affect the width and depth of the grooves.

The conical bullets fall into three basic categories.

1. Flat based with the rifling engraved at loading. The soft lead doing the engraving should be the groove diameter. If the bullet is less than groove diameter there will be gas cutting and loss of accuracy on target.
2. Flat based with the bullet undersized and paper patched to fit to the bore and the paper patching fills the grooves to precisely center the bullet in the bore.
3. Hollow based soft lead with the bullet 0.001 to 0.002 of an inch undersized. The hollow base expands into the rifling and seals the bore.

A QL barrel is a T/C innovation (Quick Loading) that counter bored the muzzle to ease and align the loading of their conical bullets. Be glad you do not know what such a muzzle looks like.

 

[Little Brother]

A 50 caliber conical bullet will not necessarily fit all 50 caliber barrels as there is no standard dimension used for all 50 caliber barrels. Dimensions change due to number of lands, manufacturing processes, either cut rifling or button rifling that affect the width and depth of the grooves.

The conical bullets fall into three basic categories.

1. Flat based with the rifling engraved at loading. The soft lead doing the engraving should be the groove diameter. If the bullet is less than groove diameter there will be gas cutting and loss of accuracy on target.
2. Flat based with the bullet undersized and paper patched to fit to the bore and the paper patching fills the grooves to precisely center the bullet in the bore.
3. Hollow based soft lead with the bullet 0.001 to 0.002 of an inch undersized. The hollow base expands into the rifling and seals the bore.

A QL barrel is a T/C innovation (Quick Loading) that counter bored the muzzle to ease and align the loading of their conical bullets. Be glad you do not know what such a muzzle looks like.

Very helpful. Thank you

 

[Harmonica Bob]

Thank you. I guess im jist wondering if a .50 cal Great Plains, for inatance, will fit all .50 cal barrels or if there are specific parameters that may need to be met per rifle. What's a QL muzzle?

Back in the day I was deadly out to 150 yds with my 50 cal Ithaca Navy Hawken with the 385 gn "Buffalo Bullet" basicly the same as the hornady GPB, on top of 60 gn pyrodex. Never lost a deer with them! When I learned how to shoot the patched round ball, I stuck with them.