TC Renegade - conversionj to double triggers

[hwalker]

I picked up a TC Renegade at auction, which is equipped with a single trigger. It shoots great, I was able to put 5 balls in a single hole at 25 yards last weekend, but I would prefer to have double set triggers.

I noticed that TC offers a conversion kit to go from double triggers to a single trigger. Is there a kit that will go the other way, that is, to replace the single trigger with a double set trigger?

I would be interested if is this is possible and if anybody knows a supplier and what I should order to make the conversion.

Thanks in advance

 

[roundball]

I don't know of any conversion kit that goes from single to double...they use the same trigger frame for both...to make the single trigger they simply removed the big rear trigger tension spring and it's mounting screw, the rear set trigger, pivot pin, and it's adjustment screw.

You could order those parts from TC, but personally I think it would be simpler to just buy a double trigger group and keep, or sell the single trigger unit.

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

...assuming the new Renegades have a fly installed. I wonder why they changed to a single trigger other than to save a couple of dollars?

 

[Rebel]

The single trigger model is what they call The Hunter model. Has a single trigger and larger trigger guard bow. Supposed to be better for hunting with gloves on. And a lot of people don't use the set trigger when hunting anyway.

 

[roundball]

The single trigger conversions were advertised as a "hunting trigger" to give more room in the trigger guard area for a gloved finger, etc...I converted one of my TC Hawkens and didn't like it...put the double set trigger group back in and sold the single trigger unit

 

[infottw]

I live in the same town and just so happened to be in their retail store today (Fox Ridge Outfitters) and handled one of them with the double triggers. Seems like a nice gun. I would give the T/C custom shop a call to see if it can be done (800-243-4570). What I really liked was their Fox Ridge Custom Carbine. They have them in matte or gloss blue for $350. What a sweet little gun.

 

[hwalker]

Anybody out there that has made the conversion to a single trigger, who might be willing to sell the double trigger unit?

As an alternative, any advice on tuning the single trigger?
It's a little heavy for my preferences.

Thanks
Hugh

 

Tuning the "trigger" has little to do with the actual trigger. It is more about polishing the lockwork. There are several threads in the archives on that subject, one less than a week old if I remember right. It takes about two pages to explain the process properly, but worth the work on a good lock. TC, CVA and Traditions hardly qualify for the effort but you will see some improvement.
Everybody is into the drop in replacement barrels but no one seems to realize that the L&R drop in locks and Davis set triggers will make more difference in accuracy than changing out barrels and keeping the sorry factory locks and triggers!

 

[hwalker]

Yeah, I guess I realize that I need to work on the lock.
I just don't know where to start and, more importantly, where to stop before I ruin something.

Maybe what I'm asking from all of you experts (expert: anybody that knows more than I do, which is everybody), is :

- Is it worth the effort to mess with it? Should I wait until I get a better quality rifle before worrying about it?
- If I mess it up, what are the consequences? I don't mind working on it, but I don't want to create a dangerous situation, with possible accidental discharges due to a slipping lock.
- If replacing the lock and trigger assembly is feasible, any recommendations on what should I look at getting?
- Any recommendations on literature that can educate me on locks, etc? I have the "Gunsmith of Grenville County" on order. I'm hoping this will provide some info. Anything else that might help?

Thanks
Hugh

 

[sabotloader]

Don't know that this will help you any but at this time there are two different people trying to sell used rengegade furniture kits on E-Bay - everything but the lock... Triggers, trigger guard and some other parts.

 

[roundball]

I have a houseful of TC Hawkens both percussion and flintlock, and after you've taken one lock apart you'll realize how simple it is, and yes, the triggter pull can be significantly improved on them very easily.
While you have the lock disassembled, it's always a good idea to take a few minutes with a dremel tool, buffing wheel & compound and simply polish up the few moving part that rub against another part, etc.
But the thing you really want to do is to simply polish the tip of the sear, and the engagement notch on the tumbler where the sear tip catches, until they're as smooth as glass.
I polish every lock I get, the whole operation is a half hour...normally lowers trigger pulls from 8-10lbs down to 3lbs, so the front trigger is actually usable for accurate hunting by itself

1) Remove the lock
2) Lower the hammer forward to relax the mainspring
3) I use needle nose pliers to push the coil spring & rod forward out of it's cup on the tumbler. [ wear a leather glove in case the needlenose pliers slip < ]
4) Remove the bridal plate and it's 2 screws
5) Remove the tiny little "fly" from the tumbler
6) Carefully wiggle the sear, sear return spring, and plunger free of the lock
7) Flip the lock over with hammer facing up and remove the hammer screw...DO NOT TRY TO PRY OFF THE HAMMER.
8) Suspend the tumble side of the lock across a pair of plier handles or something so THE TUMBLE IS FREE AND CLEAR OF ANY RESISTANCE
9) Use a punch on the end of the tumbler shaft where the hammer screw was, and tap the tumble down and away from the hammer
10) Do your polishing, lube, and basically reassemble in reverse order...everything only fits one way so you can't screw it up...takes longer to type the steps out than it does to do it.

Watch out for the little sear return spring and the little fly so they don't get away from you

 

[bob1961]

after polishing my T/C's lock on my hawken flintlock i have just under 5 lb pull unset and about 15 ozs set....just have to watch how hard you breath on it..................bob

 

[Charles/NM]

Roundball,
So the tumbler is pressed on the hammer shaft and is not actually a part of the hammer shaft? I've never removed the tumbler because the hammer is very tight on it's shaft and I didn't want to damage anything by prying it off. From your instructions I gather you slip a pin punch inside the hammer screw hole to tap the tumbler off of the hammer shaft?

 

[roundball]

No...the tumbler is a one piece unit, with one side of it machined down to a square shaft...the square shaft side fits through the hole in the side plate, and the square opening in the hammer slides over the square tumbler shaft.

Don't put a small punch inside the screw hole itself for fear of damaging the threads...use as large a punch as you can that will still fit inside the square opening of the hammer, so the punch face covers most of the square end of the tumbler shaft...then just tap the end of the tumbler shaft and it will drive the tumbler down and away from the hammer

 

[hwalker]

Thanks for the instructions, Roundball.

I finally got a chance to work on the lock this afternoon, and it was just as easy as you said. I guess I was expecting something more complicated.

The pull has improved significantly and feels much smoother.
Haven't had a chance to shoot it since the polishing though.

Another question. There seems to be some 'creep' in the trigger, before actual letoff. It's not much, but can be felt. Is this something that can be tuned as well, or should I leave it alone?

Thanks
Hugh

 

[roundball]

If you're talking about a little creep in the front trigger after you've 'set' (cocked) the rear trigger, that is adjustable by the tiny screw hanging down between the two triggers...TC's instructions as a starting point are to set the rear trigger, then slowly screw "in" the tiny adjusting screw until you hear the trigger release...then back the adjusting screw out one half to a full turn for a little safety margin.

If you do this and you still feel a little creep, you can tweak the adjusting screw some more but be careful you don't end up with an adjustment that is so borderline, a mere bump to the stock fires the rifle if the set trigger is set.

If you still have a little noticeable creep while using the set trigger, then it's coming from down inside the trigger assembly where the front trigger is sliding off the tip of the rear set trigger, getting ready to release itself under strong spring tension, and you can feel some drag.

Pull the trigger guard, pull the trigger asm, see / learn how the two triggers interact and you'll see where the tip of the rear set trigger catches in under a notch on the front trigger...these two surfaces can causes this slight drag feeling.
Disassemble the triggers by drifiting out the two pivot pins, and use your dremel wheel on those surfaces also.
==========================================================

However, if you're talking about trigger creep when just using the front trigger all by itself like a normal manual trigger, it could be one of two things:

1) you might be referring to the "take up slack" in the front trigger that's simply an unfortunate byproduct of the design of the dual set trigger relationship...and there's nothing you can do about it.
It's really more of a case of simply having to take up the 'slack' in the front trigger until it raises up high enough for you to feel it touch the sear bar in the lock, then you can start your actual normal, manual front trigger squeeze.


2) Or you might be referring to the drag you feel as the sear tip pulls out of the tumbler notch...if that's the case, you may need to go back and polish some more with buffing compound on a dremel wheel...the sear tip and the tumble notch should be shiny smooth like chrome when you polish them...be careful you don't buff the dimensions of the sear tip shorter or it might not stay engaged in the tumbler notch.

I don't use set triggers hunting...only the front trigger by itself...and the 'slack' is really not a problem once you get used to knowing you have to do it, and it's actually helpful because the slack let's the trigger give a little as you slide a gloved finger in across the front of the trigger...hope this is all clear

 

[hwalker]

Thanks again

I still have the single trigger on it.
I think maybe I'm feeling the slack before the trigger touches the sear bar.
Otherwise, release feels pretty good.

Thanks
Hugh