I have a 54 cal. TC Renegade that I have had for a number of years. I have never been able to get the thing sighted in accurately. I mounted a scope on it and am still having trouble. When the muzzleloader is clean, I can get three good shots and then it starts shooting all over the place. This morning I went to sight it in and the first shot was about 12" to to the right and 1" high. I adjusted the scope 6" left and the shot was exactly where it was suppose to go. I adjusted it 2" left and that shot was good. By then I was 4" right and 1" high from the bullseye. I adjusted it 1" down and that shot hit high left off the target. The next two shots were low right off the target. I had not cleaned the bore until then. After cleaning it was a little better, but I still could not get any type of pattern. Even cleaning after every shot did not seem to help. I checked to make sure that the scope or mount had not worked loose and it was still tight. I'm shooting round ball with TC pre-lube patch and 70gr Tripple Seven. I have the same trouble with black powder or pydroex. I have tried TC Maxi Balls in the past, but got the same result. I had the same problem when I was shooting peep sights. This is pretty frustrating, because I'm not that bad of a shot. I'm about ready to ship it bace to Thompson Center and have it checked out. Any suggestions ? :cursing:
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TC Renegade Shooting Eratic
- Thread starter Grillgod
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Grillgod said:
There are so many variables from is the bore squeaky clean, is there still leading in it from conicals to your components, to scope problems, etc, etc, it's difficult to make any simple conclusion...but the first thing I would suggest is to set the scope aside, set up a 25yd target, and get a bag of Oxyoke wonderwads.
70grns of 777 is a pretty hot load and if you don't have a firewall between your powder charge and the patch, the patch is probably failing, burning up, shredding, etc
I own many TC Hawkens with both 1:48" and 1:66" barrels, both caplock and Flintlock, and one thing is proven...TC barrels are very accurate, and 1:48" twists shoot patched round balls extremely well...the notion that they do not is an old wives tale that keeps being repeated without foundation.
My 1:48" X .54's shoot 2"-3" groups at 100yds from a bench with open sights...both caplock and Flintlock using:
90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" TC pillow ticking patches
Hornady .530 balls.
But first I would eliminate some variables and get back to basics with the following:
1) pull the scope
2) clean the bore to bare raw metal again...may have to use Shooter's Choice Black Powder cleaning gel which will dissolve buildup
3) then use a wonderwad when shooting
4) use .018" pillow ticking for a tighter fit
5) wet & dry patch between every shot so the bore is in the same condition for every shot while sighting in
Get it shooting patched balls into a single ragged hole at 25yds, then you'll know what you've got and can put the scope on and start zeroing in...right now I think there are too many unknowns and you're chasing your tail at the range...I suspect we've all done it, I know I have.
:thumbsup:
gmww
70 Cal.
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I've read where some claim that the build up of "SEASONING" eventualy causes inacuracy. I took my barrel back to metal by scrubbing with bore brush and also JB bore cleaner. Amazing what crud came out of a visually clean barrel.
I've also had to try different powders as one barrel loves pyrodex while the other loves Goex. I've literally spent weeks working up a load. Don't give up!
I've also had to try different powders as one barrel loves pyrodex while the other loves Goex. I've literally spent weeks working up a load. Don't give up!
gmww said:
:thumbsup:
I agree...getting a clean white patch out of a bore doesn't mean much unless you personally know you've taken the bore back to raw metal first, and then take the steps every time to prevent any buildup again
cliff mccann
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Another thing you might check out.On my Renegade the barrel channel is a bit oversize which allowed the barrel to wiggle left and right.So I cut 3/8" by 1" strips of masking tape and stuck them into the angled flats of the barrel channel just forward of the barrel wedge pin.It took 5-6 strips on each side to build up enough thickness to eliminate the wiggle room,and my rifle holds consistant zero.This is quicker and easier than glass bedding,and removable if it doesn't help.Just add one layer at a time to each side and quit when the wedge pin goes in a little bit harder.
cliff mccann said:
And another quick approach is to lay the wedge pin across the open jaws of a vice, and gently tap it in it's center with a hammer and punch to put a slight bow in it...I've had to do that on 2-3 of my Hawken rifles
Right you are...RMS bought them out, and preserved their name, setting them up as a separate division within the Rightenour company.
Got a special OxYoke catelog insert in the latest Rightenour main catelog with an announcement inside...
Got a special OxYoke catelog insert in the latest Rightenour main catelog with an announcement inside...
Grillgod said:
There's no stupid questions...when I/we all started we asked the same questions.
After every shot of course there is some fouling left in the bore, which can affect accuracy if not kept to a minimum.
It's particularly important when trying to zero a rifle because you want the bore condition to be the same for each shot as you possibly can.
One way is to take a shot, then run a damp (not dripping wet) patch down bore to soften and pickup most of the fouling.
Then run a dry patch down bore to remove more fouling and any remaining dampness from the bore before you pour in the next powder charge.
This can be done with one damp & one dry patch, or variations like using both sides of a damp and both sides of a dry...or using a dozen damp and a dozen dry, etc...the point being that the most important thing to remember when doing any process step like this is to do it exactly the same way every time...ie: one patch each time or a dozen patches each time...do it the same.
ie: you might only have the bore 97% clean for each shot, but if it's the same 97% clean each time you shoot, the effects on the ball will be the same.
You mentioned shooting a few shots then wiping the bore...when sighting in, that approach might work against you...you take 2-3 shots, make adjustments to move the POI...then you clean the bore take a shot, see that the POI is not right so you make another adjustment for that...and repeat a couple of those cycles (chasing your tail) and before you know it it's dark, you have to leave, your frustrated because you think the rifle is spraying all over the place...and worse, it's still not sighted in.
IMO, and particularly for ML hunting, sight in a rifle for the first shot out of a clean cold barrel to be dead center...to do that, each "sighting in" shot should be made from a clean cold barrel.
:thumbsup:
Mad Professor
50 Cal.
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gmww said:
my back ordered wonder wads from TOW came in recently, new supplier is eastern maine shooting supplies: 71 main st. Milo, Me. Still made in the good ole USA (same town too). Email[url] www.emshootingsupplies.com[/url] (have not checked the site yet)
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gmww
70 Cal.
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What Roundball said is good stuff. I would only add that after sighting in on a cold clean barrel know where your follow up shot is on a warm barrel. Because in case you need to do a follow up shot on an animal, you'll know where it's going to go.
cliff mccann said:
I've done the same thing on several rifles using a thin, sticky backed, green felt material that I found at a hobby and craft shop. I believe they sell it to use as a lining for wooden boxes or display cases that you might build. It seems to have just the right amount of compression to tighten the fit up nicely with a single layer.
I've owned two ('79 and '82, still have the '82) and my experience has been the opposite. You just can't load them heavy with the 1:48" rifling when using a round ball. His 70 gr load should be fine. I never go above 90 gr FFg. Some m/l just don't settle down unless you find the right combination of powder, ball diameter and patch.
If Grillgod were shooting a centerfire I'd suspect a bad bedding job based on his description. The Renegade has that snottin huge 1-1/8" tube and I don't think it can be bedded bad enough to matter. Is the wedge pin hard to get in? Might be distorting the barrel if you have to pound the snot out of it to seat it.
If you start with a clean barrel and wipe between each shot and you're still having that problem I'd switch powders, and if that doesn't help, start testing other lubes.
I get one-hole groups at 50 yards. A shot 12" out of the group using a scope is a mechanical problem unless you'te firing at 300 yards. There ain't no powder or patch will help that.
One thing you cannot do is adjust the sights based on one shot. Three is minimum, ten is better. You can't "move the group" until you have a group. One shot could be a flinch or a flier. You end up tiring yourself out just chasing your tail and getting nowhere.
You're not resting the gun on the barrel to shoot, are you?
One more note is that you should shoot a 3 shot group before making any scope adjustments.......Then move the center of the group to the aiming point with the scope adjustments. Theres no use in moving the scope adustments for each shot if the rifle is shooting into a very large group........Use these other guys advice and when you get it grouping then adjust the point of impact to the point of aim...........Bob
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