Tell me how I did this!

[fujione]

Guys,

I just picked up a 1858 Rem from Cabela. I loaded the chambers with 15g put a patch on and pressed the lead ball on 44 cal .454 diam.. Didn't put the caps on that tight after the 3rd shot one came off.

Here is what happened: I shot the first two and on the third I heard an odd fizz. Okay the cylinder wouldn't turn. I found out later the ball seated between the cylinder and the mouth of the barrel.

Okay I pushed the ball back into the cylinder and then pulled it out. I thought I would see that I forgot the powder (but I had checked it before the ball.) NO the unburned powder was there and so was the patch!!

Okay how does the ball hit the barrel and the powder not light????? Thank God it didn't lodge in the barrel and I hit another round. But what did I do????

Joe

 

[biliff]

I hope when you say "patch" you mean wad. You shouldn't be patching balls in a revolver, they should be a swage fit in the chambers by themselves.

What type of powder are you using? Some of the substitutes are hard to ignite. The other possibility is you somehow contaminated the powder with grease and it didn't burn right.

 

[Moloch]

A cap has enough force to do that, but not igniting the powder?
Must have been bad powder... :hmm:

 

[fujione]

Guys,

I did mean wad but you may I hit something! I didn't clean the cylinder prior to loading! I just picked it up and meant to clean the oil out but didn't!!! I cleaned the outside and the barrel but not the cylinders! It was very oily could I have contaminated the powder that bad?

Using 3f Goex

Joe

 

[biliff]

That would probably be it. Those things tend to get packed with cosmoline or whatever they're using for preservative. They need to be stripped and thoroughly cleaned, inside and out before you shoot 'em.

 

[mykeal]

The nipple was filled with packing grease/oil.

Igniting the cap can push the ball and powder column forward in the chamber. The grease/oil contamination could very well have insulated the powder from the heat of the cap sufficiently that the powder would not be ignited.

 

[fujione]

Guys,

Thank you so much for the fast and great info. I guess you really need to follow all the instructions! Years of knowing better has gotten me into trouble before. LOL

Joe

 

[renovato]

Definately sounds like the powder was contaminated. This is a good time to remind everyone to always thoroughly clean any new gun, modern or reproduction, before you fire it the first time. The "oil" that the factory uses is a rust preventative and not really meant to be a lubricant. This also gives you a chance to get out any machining debris that might still be in the gun that could cause problems or damage later on. Also, shooting with oil or grease in the barrel, especially with modern guns, can cause damage.

 

[rafterob]

Man,scared me when you said "patch" until I read through the posts. Has anybody heard of anyone actually patching their balls in a revolver and what resulted?

 

[FishDFly]

I completely clean each new gun to remove all the packing preservatives, it's amazing what is in some new barrels.

While cleaning the gun, it gets a complete inspection for operability (does it work) and for safety. I look at the threads where the nipple(s) screw in to make sure that they are as they should be. I check all the screws to see that they are tight.

I believe it was mykeal who recommended using Choke Tube grease when putting the nipples back in the cylinder, I do that now.

RDE

 

[musketman]

Here is what happened: I shot the first two and on the third I heard an odd fizz. Okay the cylinder wouldn't turn. I found out later the ball seated between the cylinder and the mouth of the barrel.

Okay I pushed the ball back into the cylinder and then pulled it out. I thought I would see that I forgot the powder (but I had checked it before the ball.) NO the unburned powder was there and so was the patch!!

Okay how does the ball hit the barrel and the powder not light????? Thank God it didn't lodge in the barrel and I hit another round. But what did I do????

Joe

Although it does sound like the powder may have gotten damp from oil or lube in that chamber and just "fused" enough to push the ball far enough forward to lock the action. I would suggest that you mark that chamber, just in case it happens again. I wonder if it may be slightly larger in diameter than the other's and the ball moved forward under recoil from the first two shots?

Also, check to see if all the nipple have the same diameter opening in them, the one for that third shot may have had something blocking the path of the percussion cap's flame. Sometimes pieces of percussion caps get lodged in them and go un-noticed.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Go to page 2 in this forum and scroll down. You'll find a recent thread on this topic. :thumbsup:

 

[fujione]

Guys,

Just an update I took the 58 out today and put 30 rounds down the pipe. Before I did this I pulled the nipples and cleaned everything very well. The oil on the nipple treads was amazing. I'm surprised how the gun went boom the first time.

MinMan. The only way I could check the diameter of the cylinders was to look at the lead ring after I pushed the ball into the cylinder. They all seemed the same. I thought a lot about one cylinder being too large it didn't seem so. I have a micrometer at home so I double check this at home.

Boy it is a joy to shoot! Thinking about buying one of those cylinder reloaders for the bench.

Thanks again,

Joe

 

[TFoley]

Why are you loading such squeakpip loads?

The recommended load for a .44 C&B is around 25-30gr.

tac

 

[fujione]

Tac,

The Pietta book called for 15-18gr. The Cabela book called for 20-35 and a guy at the range told me 20-25. So today I shot 20 and it was fun but next time I'll kick it up to 25-30.

Joe

 

[TFoley]

Tac,

The Pietta book called for 15-18gr. The Cabela book called for 20-35 and a guy at the range told me 20-25. So today I shot 20 and it was fun but next time I'll kick it up to 25-30.

Joe

Sir - the Pietta book was written for Yoorup, where the litigation lawyers are nearly as hot as they are in the US of A.

I venture to note that most of us who shoot a .44 revolver use around 25-30gr of FFg or similar. My load for my ROA is 26gr of Pyrodex P, but that's only because of the PITA rules on the holding and storage of BP where I live.

The idea is to formulate a load that will bring the ball as near to the top of the chamber as possible, so as to reduce the amount of 'jump' from the chamber into the forcing cone of the barrel.

This you can do by discovering the best load for your gun, and then topping up the chamber with cream of wheat or similar until the ball seats nicley just below the rim. Then top it off [and some don't] with Bore butter, or, as I do, old-fashioned water-pump grease in a syringe.

Wads [I'm guessing Wonder-Wads?]are an expensive way to go, even though they are pretty cheap in the USA - I don't know anybody over here that uses them.

tac

 

[paulvallandigham]

If the powder is fouled with water or oil, the force of the percussion cap would be enough to push the ball out of the cylinder, and either partly or fully into the barrel.

Always stop and check the gun when you hear an odd sound. Fuji did well, this time.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If Pieta told you 15-18 grains, they have a reason. Don't load this gun up too much. It will damage the gun. No, its not likely to blow up. However, it can set a steel cylinder back into a brass frame enough to hammer a groove in the frame, so that eventually, the gun will double fire- fire two chambers at one time. The second chamber is located at the right side of the gun as you look down the barrel, and the cap is ignited in recoil when it hits the corner of that concave opening for capping the nipples. I had this happen to a .36 caliber revolver- Model 1851 replica-- when I used 20-30 grains of FFFg as a steady diet in the gun.

You would be better off keeping the powder charge DOWN to the factory recommendation, and filling the rest of the cylinder with corn meal or some other filler of your choice.

A .36 caliber revolver, with an 8 inch barrel, will only burn 18 grains of powder efficiently. Everything else will burn outside the muzzle.

( Davenport Formula: 11.5 grains per cubic inch of bore.)


The loads of 20-30 grains of powder are more appropriate for use in RIFLES of .36 caliber, with their longer barrels.

 

[TFoley]

Dear Mr Vallandigham - the poster wrote - 'I just picked up a 1858 Rem from Cabela'.

I believe that the Pietta Remington Model 1858 is a .44 caliber revolver.

In which I venture to say that the vast majority of shooters use between 25 and 30gr of BP.

Just like I've been doing in mine since 1988 with no visible signs of strain.

tac

 

[R.M.]

There's nothing wrong with loading 15gr in a .44
My wife loads 15gr in hers and finds it quite comfortable, and accurate for the distances she shoots at.
Cheaper to shoot too. :wink: