That Evil Ember

[Notchy Bob]

Does there seem to be a number of reloads after which this is more likely?
How likely is it on the second or third reload?

This is a good question. Loading and shooting multiple rounds in rapid succession appears to increase the likelihood of a cook-off substantially. I would be interested in hearing from those who have witnessed “cook-offs”…. After about how many rounds are these most likely to occur?

Another thing I have wondered about is whether the type of breech has anything to do with it. Original American percussion military muskets and rifles, as far as I know, had a bolster on the side of the barrel for the nipple, with a very simple breech plug. The flash channel from the nipple base goes directly to the main charge, and the face of the breechplug is flat. A lot of the reproductions use a patent breech, in which the breech plug and bolster or nipple seat are one unit, with a smaller-diameter powder well or chamber connecting the bore to the flash channel. Is one more likely than the other to “cook off”?

I completed “cannon school” at Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine maybe 10-12 years ago. I recall they stressed the importance of waiting a certain amount of time in between shots with the cannon to allow any possible ember time to burn out. Maybe half an hour? I don’t remember. I do know that you do not want a cook-off while loading a cannon.

Notchy Bob

 

[kyron4]

So would blowing down the barrel after a shot extinguish an ember or fuel it ?

 

[Mulebrain]

The question isn't if there could be a burning ember, are you willing to bet your life there isn't?

Do as you may just don't put my life at risk, while risking yours

 

[Mulebrain]

So would blowing down the barrel after a shot extinguish an ember or fuel it ?

It might, and it might not! It might just get the ember going.

Blowing down the barrel is completely unnecessary with proper loading procedures. When you load after your shot, all the air in the barrel is blown out the vent or nipple. If there is a blockage you will notice it upon loading.

Many swear by blowing down the barrel, as is softens the fowling to aid in loading. Well use a proper wet patch when you load, renders that procedure to the recycle bin.

 

[French Colonial]

So would blowing down the barrel after a shot extinguish an ember or fuel it ?

I say in extinguishes it.
I load using a measure, not from the horn.
I blow down the barrel as I was taught back in the 70's
I have never wiped between shots
I have never seen or been around when a cook off/ember caused a charge to ignite. Not saying they don't happen but I do not know any speed loaders.

All this was common practice for years at the club where I mainly shoot, only in the last 10-15 years have people tried to get everyone to quit blowing down the barrel and to wipe, I may start doing it in another 20 years or so.

 

[Gvilleddie]

Ok, dumb question…when you wipe between shots, use damp patch only or saturated patch + dry patch or dry patch only?

 

[Mulebrain]

Ok, dumb question…when you wipe between shots, use damp patch only or saturated patch + dry patch or dry patch only?

There is zero need to wipe between shots, that is for idiots!

With the proper patch lube, you can go to infinity You can keep doing the unnecessary, and I will just keep shooting and having more fun!

Here is a target off hand, dawn and water patch lube, no blowing, wiping, swabbing etc.... Yes with a flintlock

 

[maillemaker]

Does there seem to be a number of reloads after which this is more likely?
How likely is it on the second or third reload?

This is one of those things where you will get a million opinions on what causes it.

All of mine, and this one you see in the video, happened on the second shot. I think this is typical, but not a universal experience.

My opinions on this is that most N-SSA shooters clean their bores with some kind of liquid cleaner in between courses of fire, so they start off with a clean bore the next course of fire. It is possible that some liquid residue is left behind at the breech if enough dry patches were not put down to the breech face to mop it up.

On the first loading, some powder may be fouled on that wet residue, and on the first shot, it may not all burn, leaving some smoldering in the breech. On the second loading, it goes off.

Another possibility, and one that applies to me, I think, is that I use medical gauze for cleaning patches. They are insanely cheap. However, being gauze, they will "pull a fuzz" very very easily. Drag one across a metal burr or a wood board and it will pull fine fibers of fuzz out of the patch. When I first started using these, I would use 100% cotton ones. I figured more absorptive. However, cotton will smolder. Synthetic fibers, on the other hand, tend to melt if they are not hot enough to burn. Once I switched to synthetic fabric gauze, I have not had any more cookoffs.

Others have claimed that poor cleaning of the breech face can result in coke buildup, and that under sustained fire that coke can get hot enough to act like a glow plug and ignite powder going down the bore. Still others have claimed that if you have an incorrectly-made barrel, where there is a gap between the breech plug and the bore, this gap provides another place for coke to build up, and that it might become an ember in the bore.

There are others who claim that humidity is a factor.

 

[maillemaker]

So would blowing down the barrel after a shot extinguish an ember or fuel it ?

We never blow down barrels in N-SSA competition. (and no, I don't want to have a debate on this topic again).

However, it is common loading practice to leave the hammer down on the last spent cap when loading, the idea being that that when ramming the bullet home you do not create a "bellows effect" with air blowing through the charge and out the nipple hole.

 

[ETipp]

A man was killed earlier this year working some cattle down the road from us. Those big bulls ain't no joke when you're on ground level with them.

I once saw a bull come through a gate that was barely open and catch it with his shoulder. That gate swung around so fast that the owner never saw it coming. I mean, it swung like there was an explosion behind it. The top rail of that pipe gate connected squarely with his dome. I would have put my money on little 80 year old Mr. Taylor being dead instantly, but he came to and began moving around on his own. Got checked out later that day and even escaped concussion.

Respect, attention to body language, and the ability to vertically scale whatever is handy will keep you safe from the KILLER KOWS
View attachment 246756

Looks like my Ex sister-in-law.

 

[maillemaker]

There is zero need to wipe between shots, that is for idiots!

It's also for us NRA Muzzleloading Instructors.

The NRA Muzzleloading course teaches "wet patch dry patch" loading style. The NRA course was developed in conjunction with the NMLRA.

Most people in the N-SSA clean with a cleaning solution and then dry out with a patch in between courses of fire. But not all do. With my revolver, I just brush the bore. Many breechloader shooters only brush their bores. I know a smoothbore shooters who only brushes between courses of fire but man those things foul so that I will continue wet cleaning them in between courses of fire.

 

[waksupi]

Men for years people post that loading a muzzleloader from flask or horn is not safe because of the EVIL EMBER hiding down the bore. Been shooting for Forty years now and I have never seen the beast that people fear. Caplocks, Flintlocks, and Revolvers have never flared the powder charge on My weapons or any of the people I shoot around. I personally believe loading from a powder measure just gives me a consistent load and that's all.

After nearly 50 years of shooting muzzleloaders, I witnessed the sparkler when loading. It happened to me at home this summer. I generally blow down the barrel before reloading, and neglected to do so this time. No harm done, but sure re-enforced my habit of blowing down the barrel before reloading. To hell with those who think it's dangerous, we don't have lawyers shooting with us.

 

[ETipp]

There is zero need to wipe between shots, that is for idiots!

With the proper patch lube, you can go to infinity You can keep doing the unnecessary, and I will just keep shooting and having more fun!

Here is a target off hand, dawn and water patch lube, no blowing, wiping, swabbing etc.... Yes with a flintlock

View attachment 247077

I wouldn't say that at all. Perhaps for competition shooting or repetitive target shooting. But for many hunting loads, not so, especially with conical.

Much of it will depend on lube used and/or shooting patches used. Certain temps will dictate different lubes as well.

Without doubt most hunters will not shoot consecutive rounds. However, during testing at the range for different loads, new sights, etc, a crud ring will start forming after just a very few shots with many big game hunting loads/lubes. With my GPR using Tracks Mink Oil and ticking, it became stiffer to load after 3-4 shots. With my New Englander, about 3 shots with a conical and it too, became difficult to load. Not even sure it could be loaded a forth time. Yet my Crockett rifle has been loaded and shot as many as 11 times while squirrel hunting without having to run a patch down the bore.

 

[PathfinderNC]

The sound of a Powder Horn exploding is memorable.
Happened during a reenactment many years ago. Though we (Light Infantry) were far from the rifle company where it happened (in a grove of trees), the BOOM was plain as day.
We were told a rifleman loaded from his horn.
Never found out if he was injured but I imagine so.
It was loud.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

So would blowing down the barrel after a shot extinguish an ember or fuel it ?

Both, I blow down my barrel, not for embers, but to see my touch hole is clear for the next shot.

 

[sturmkatze]

I say in extinguishes it.
I load using a measure, not from the horn.
I blow down the barrel as I was taught back in the 70's
I have never wiped between shots
I have never seen or been around when a cook off/ember caused a charge to ignite. Not saying they don't happen but I do not know any speed loaders.

All this was common practice for years at the club where I mainly shoot, only in the last 10-15 years have people tried to get everyone to quit blowing down the barrel and to wipe, I may start doing it in another 20 years or so.

Exactly. I have blown down the barrel from when I started. I know when my gun has gone off. I blow until smoke don’t come out the touch hole. I never load from a horn or flask. Either measure or speed loaders. Paper cartridges for the musket.

To each their own, but if they tell me I can’t blow down the barrel — something I KNOW to be safe — then I’m leaving. I’ve been doing it that way since like 1979 when I was young and starting out. It works for me.

 

[vintovka]

So would blowing down the barrel after a shot extinguish an ember or fuel it ?

Back when actively competing in ML Trap shooting everyone did and never an accident. Then again you could instantly recognize participants by their "kiss of death" black lips!!! (and BP induced flatulence)

 

[Nav]

I've seen people go nuts on the internet when someone leans on a rifle with the bolt open and a chamber flag in it. I can't imagine what pics of muzzle in mouth would elicit across the idiotverse.

 

[vintovka]

Does look odd but its an acquired taste. The BP flatulency is a whole other matter.

 

[Notchy Bob]

My dad taught me to blow down the barrel after every shot to ensure the flash channel was clear, and to keep fouling soft. I think there is something to that last part... Black powder cartridge shooters blow through their rifle bores from the breech using fitted "blow tubes." I understand this is to help keep fouling soft. Some of those guys are fanatics about accuracy, and I'm inclined to believe they know what they're doing.

Whether I blow through the bore after the shot or not sort of depends on who is watching.

Notchy Bob