After months of solitary brooding I have decided that the English had the best looking muzzle loading service rifle in the world, the 1853 Enfield with all its variations. Perhaps the .451 Whitworth was the best of show since beauty is as beauty does. Following up on that came the Lee Enfield .303 which was the best 20th century service rifle.
The 1853 Enfield
- Thread starter Cpt Flint
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The Martini-Henry was not particularly good- looking but it was used to awesome effect.
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The 1853 Enfield lock, and the 1861 Springfield lock, in a side by side comparison, there is no contest, IMHO. Visually comparing the two hammers, the Enfield has better lines. Truly, a wonderful sight to see.
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The P53 styled Whitworth is the coolest, the 1858 the best looking and the 1861 Musketoon is the handiest. JMHO
Not enough drop in the stock for me, I prefer the Springfield. I like the looks of the Enfield better, but I can’t shoot it well.
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Naa Martini's are ugly no hammers ' I like the Sniders they at least have hammers like a proper gun . (Ime jesting )Where in Aus ?
Regards Rudyard
Queensland, Fraser Coast area
Put some drop in the stock and I'd get one! The Springfield lines up a lot better for people who have necks.
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Put a .458 bore fast twist barrel and better sights on a Springfield and yeah, that would be the cats meow. But I do like my Armisport P53. Armisport even fixed it by using 48" twist rifling!
sportster73hp
50 Cal.
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Ugly or not I always wanted one and ima made it possible.
ResearchPress
45 Cal.
Parker-Hale also made some ‘three band Enfields’ with 1:48 rifling…. Not really a Pattern 1853 Enfield then though.
David
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I'll take that as a joke, right? The best 20th century service rifle? There's lots of other rifles that come to mind - M-1, FAL, M-16 to name a few!
DuncNZ
54 Cal.
I had one of those . I got H Trevor Bugg from Australia to make me a special bronze mold for it . I sold the rifle and kept the mold , it is a big long bullet . Unfortunately Trevor is no longer with us .I just happened to have the mold on my computer desk
DuncNZ
54 Cal.
The first Parker Hale Enfield I ever saw was just over 50 years ago . It was a PH Musketoon .It was sitting there in its open box , glistening in the shop lights . I instantly coveted it and if it wasn't under glass I would have dribbled all over it . It came with a Sergeants tool , a Lyman 577611 mould , a brass bore brush , a wool bore mop and a book : Instruction Of Musketry . Optional, and very expensive was a silver plated screw top container for caps , a Parker Hale powder flask made by James Dixon and Son Sheffield England .I finally got my hands on a mint unfired Musketoon 20 years later . I have since owned 2 PH versions and an Original . I thought you may be interested in the Flasks and book. The top flask measure is in grains and the bottom in Drams . I never saw another cap box . The book contains Extracts from Regulations For Conducting Musketry Instructions Of The Army . Feb 1859 , it is complete with diagrams . Not For Sale
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They are good looking! Can't argue that! I just picked up a pair of them, please excuse his breechloading brother, they got together for a photo shoot recently on my living room floor!
My P53 is an 1862 example and was built at either London or Birmingham, as it is "Tower" marked on the lockplate, but I can't find any stock markings to narrow it down past that. I purchased some pritchett round kits from www.thejeffersonarsenal.com and will be working up some loads for that and regular minie balls. I accessorized it with a period bayonet also (I like each martial arm I own to have a full set of accessories!)
My P53 is an 1862 example and was built at either London or Birmingham, as it is "Tower" marked on the lockplate, but I can't find any stock markings to narrow it down past that. I purchased some pritchett round kits from www.thejeffersonarsenal.com and will be working up some loads for that and regular minie balls. I accessorized it with a period bayonet also (I like each martial arm I own to have a full set of accessories!)
ResearchPress
45 Cal.
Issue 10 of the free PDF download Research Press Journal on my web site includes original Parker-Hale advertising for the carbine, which shows some of the accessories you refer to.
David
DuncNZ
54 Cal.
Well that is interesting I do have the oil bottle and the turn screw ,They are marked Parker Hale but I did not realise they came with the Musketoon . I also have the patch . I have owned an 1853 with checkering but have never seen checkering on a Musketoon . I also have the advertising brochure I picked up 50 years ago . Rodger Hale once told me that they found a lot of original hammers , which went on the Musketoon . I have a spare hammer in my little collection . He said the hardest thing was getting the colour case correct and they found one of the workmen who worked for Enfield who taught them how to do it the correct way . There is a lot of collecting potential in just the Parker Hale Enfield's . I have sold many of the original bayonets including saw backed and Yataghan style . One thing is that when PH fitted the bayonet lug on the Enfields they bent the barrels a little with the heat , That can make the rifles shoot off to one side a little and I serious competition shooters who have had their barrels heated and straightened .
Another thing is the complicated breach system PH used , I seem to remember it was made 3 parts .The Bolster , the tang which screwed to the bolster then a plug which went through the body of the tang and into the bolster , as maybe extra reinforcement ?
There was a guy here in New Zealand made up a one piece breach and had some cast in stainless steel .
In keeping with the thread on stuck brushes . One chap I knew got his bore brush stuck in his volunteer PH , he took it to a gunsmith to have the brush removed , the the gunsmith removed the plug then removed the tang , , then found the Bolster was screwed and peened in , this he could not remove so he drilled a hole through it and used a rod to push out the brush . He then threaded the hole and made a plug to screw into the hole , all well and good except there is an air space between the bolster and the plug , under a lot of shooting the screw moved back and fell into the airspace , the next charge of powder went part in the air space and part in the barrel , When he fired the shot , there was a cloud of smoke , the rifle stock disintegrated the barrel took of on its own ,the slumped stunned over the remains . He had a cut forehead was a little stunned and incredibly annoyed and lucky . The rifle was ruined , the barrel ended re-barreling a Martini Henry . I guess the moral of the story is if you need a gunsmith get a one with a lot of Muzzle loading knowledge .
Cheers Dunc
Another thing is the complicated breach system PH used , I seem to remember it was made 3 parts .The Bolster , the tang which screwed to the bolster then a plug which went through the body of the tang and into the bolster , as maybe extra reinforcement ?
There was a guy here in New Zealand made up a one piece breach and had some cast in stainless steel .
In keeping with the thread on stuck brushes . One chap I knew got his bore brush stuck in his volunteer PH , he took it to a gunsmith to have the brush removed , the the gunsmith removed the plug then removed the tang , , then found the Bolster was screwed and peened in , this he could not remove so he drilled a hole through it and used a rod to push out the brush . He then threaded the hole and made a plug to screw into the hole , all well and good except there is an air space between the bolster and the plug , under a lot of shooting the screw moved back and fell into the airspace , the next charge of powder went part in the air space and part in the barrel , When he fired the shot , there was a cloud of smoke , the rifle stock disintegrated the barrel took of on its own ,the slumped stunned over the remains . He had a cut forehead was a little stunned and incredibly annoyed and lucky . The rifle was ruined , the barrel ended re-barreling a Martini Henry . I guess the moral of the story is if you need a gunsmith get a one with a lot of Muzzle loading knowledge .
Cheers Dunc
ResearchPress
45 Cal.
My understating from that workman was that he learnt the art of colour case hardening through the bone charcoal method whilst serving his apprenticeship at Webley & Scott.
David
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I believe it was John St Ledger who had little shop in Brums' New Buildings 'Did the colour case hardening ,he did Falling Blocks ect for a customer of mine . The 'New Buildings ' where at least a hundred years of old .grotty shops with chalked names on the doors . Brum Council couldn't care less about the gun trade. Same as Sheffield's Communist Council where only too fond of knocking the Cutlers shops into car parks . But gave priority in finding excuses to close rifle & pistol ranges . And denied the Territorials from exiibiting at the Sheffield Show being too WARLIKE for the ' Red flag on May day' set that ran the City Council. The Dixons Flasks where pieced out but not bad ,the combination tool was pretty frightfull but I suppose better than non generally the two band was the most popular with the Sheffield Branch MLAGB. I had an old rifle so never used the PH's .
Regards Rudyard
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