The Curse Of The Sprue

[toot]

I put mine in a bearing race welded to a piece of angle iron, chuck it up in my vice and clamp it on my drill press table, and chuck up a truck valve stem in to my chock, turn it on a slow speed and bring it down onto the balls, mine, bearing race holds 5 to 6 balls. keep applying an even pressure, and keep checking them, remember that it is stopped spinning or you will play pick up. ask me how I know? it works great, at least for me. give it a try. it works for the OLD DIXIE SISSOR MOULDS THAT HAVE to have the sprue cut with a set of DIKES / SIDE CUTTERS. NOW, that is a mega sprue, it comes out round, no sprue up or down with this progress, they will look like HORNADY SWAGED RB,S. toot.

 

[toot]

Zeke Baker fixed the sprue problem with his improved ball mould, featured in his book, E Baker Remarks on Rifle Guns.
In a wild moment of impetuosity I bought a copy. I love that history connection you get from old stuff

View attachment 47497

where did you get it, and how much? thanks.

 

[McClura]

I cast around a thousand of each caliber at a time. Each time I get about 100 of them on a soft towel and they cool, I put them in an old metal coffee can, has to be Folgers, and roll them around while the new lead I put in the melting pot comes to temperature.
On some like my .62 caliber balls I don't mess with them. Just cast them and take to range and shoot. One thing about my target rifles and pistols, I load a very tight ball/patch combination. I start with short starter using rubber mallet and them a stainless ram rod seating against the powder. Been doing that for over 40 years and shot a lot of competition with them. I have had to pull a few on the range or pulled one after hunting a few days so I didn't have to shoot it.
They are somewhat out of round after hammering them into the bore and they shoot cloverleaf groups. I have had many an old timer shooters pooh pooh me on the range when hammering them in but when the smoke clears and I have five shoots together on a target for a score of 50 they just shake their heads.
I have tried putting the sprue in different positions when loading and it doesn't seem to make any difference in my rifles or pistols like a said, I do roll the roundball in a can so when shooting I don't have to worry about placing the sprue and I can keep my thoughts on my next shoot.
Mike

 

[1950DAVE]

Gentlemen, I think you have overwhelmed me with so much " science" I will never be able to shoot another of my home cast lead ball of unknown alloy again much less continue with my intention to make my own small cal. mold. What shall I do?
Dave

 

[Professor flintlock]

Gentlemen, I think you have overwhelmed me with so much " science" I will never be able to shoot another of my home cast lead ball of unknown alloy again much less continue with my intention to make my own small cal. mold. What shall I do?
Dave

Right on Dave. Log. Cabin sells a ball starter $7.95 I think which forms the sprue into the top of the ball. Works great! The trick to casting a good ball is 1. 800degree lead. 2. Hand dipper no bottom pour.3. preheat your mold 4. Hold the mold at a slight angle 5 degrees. Then pour all your lead on the ladle , letting it run over the side. 5. Knock the ball free cutting the sprue let it cool and set for a weak ideally, never happens! If you have a scale weigh a few you'll see they are pretty consistent. This method prevents a void from forming in the ball really helps eliminate flyers. Ever Mike a ball after you have tumbled it. A sprue less ball would be nice for hunting and a quick second shot. But a preloaded bullet board does the same thing, only quicker! I make the ball starters for the LC . But this not an advertisement!

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

He is wrong. The sprue, if loaded very close to top or bottom center, will cause the ball to wobble slightly. But, it will not take it off course. This can be proven by observing the many 50-5X targets at competitions. Sprue can be dealt with but is a pointless effort. Like talking sweetly to a cow while milking her.

too funny!

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

1800- SprueRX A mental health hotline for those really troubled by Sprue,s

 

[ROCKFANNING]

No one has mentioned what I do. For completion I weigh all the balls on a batch. I use lee molds. I have found that using the heaviest balls may because the mold was not shut down enough. So I use the next most frequent group which is generally the largest. Then I recast the rest which I believe have dirt or voids.
Simple, just weigh them.

 

[George]

I used to wonder if sprue placement was a problem. I was never able to see any significant difference in accuracy between sprue up, sprue down, swaged or tumbled to eliminate the sprue. A few years ago I had collected 6-8 balls which I had pulled for one reason or another and was keeping them to recast. They all had big screw holes and were pretty ragged looking. On a whim one day I loaded and shot them in the routine way and they shot into the same group as usual. I stopped wondering and worrying about sprues. I feel muuuuuch better now.

Spence

 

[Johnny Tremain]

We used to try and clean the sprue up. Involved a paint shaker.
Now we just point it out the barrel.

 

[Frontier's]

I was going over some old Muzzleloader mag's and in May/June 1998 issue there is a article by Darwin Johnston tilted "The Curse Of The Sprue." In it Darwin talks about the fact that the sprue on lead balls is a "Significant blemish on the surface of the ball that can seriously affect the location of the center of gravity, hence its balance, and consequently its accuracy." Darwin goes on and talks about why the sprue causes the lead ball to become unbalanced. As the ball rotates in the riffling and exits the barrel, this spiral action on the ball speeds down range with a unbalanced center of gravity (c.g.) will depart on a path tangent to the spiral. This tangential, a lateral departure from the center of the bore, influences the accuracy of the shot. Daren gives an example, "Using a rifle having a 48-inch twist and seated cast ball with its c.g. located at a distance from the center of the bore equal to the thickness of a piece of paper, 0.004 inches, the ball can be expected to strike no closer than 1.88 inches to an target 100 yards away." Stated more dramatically, Darwin states that this unbalanced ball will strike on the circumference of a 3.76-inch diameter circle centered on an aiming point 100 yards away. Also, patching, starting and ramming inconsistencies can affect the c.g. by as much as 0.015 inches from the center of the bore. Darwin goes into much math with "tables of predicted errors" and gives two conclusions. First, is having a rifle with a slow twist rate and states that "Perhaps this is why we often refer to rifles having a slower twist rate as ball guns," Second, given a choice, use cold swaged balls, or carefully trim the sprue from smooth, round cast balls before using them. After reading this article, my question is, what would you use to remove the sprue, a file, knife, etc?

Total hog wash bs imo.

 

[toot]

the animal or target doesn't care if the sprue is UP or DOWN?? just send it down range.

 

[chiller]

Another thought:
I own two rifled percussion rifles, one .50 cal and one .54 cal. I always placed the patched round ball with the sprue up when loading. However I own a flintlock .62 cal smooth boar rifle that I have not yet fired a ball through. I just received lead round balls (.600 dia.) and will play with different thickness patches. Darwin Johnston's article was on rifled barrels. I think the sprue will play a bigger role in smooth bore barrels, especially if shooting with no patch or a very thin patch. The ball has a greater chance of roating around in the barrel when loading. This is the reason I want to remove the sprue in purchased lead balls. A .600 ball has a much bigger sprue than say for .50 cal rifle.

 

[Professor flintlock]

Another thought:
I own two rifled percussion rifles, one .50 cal and one .54 cal. I always placed the patched round ball with the sprue up when loading. However I own a flintlock .62 cal smooth boar rifle that I have not yet fired a ball through. I just received lead round balls (.600 dia.) and will play with different thickness patches. Darwin Johnston's article was on rifled barrels. I think the sprue will play a bigger role in smooth bore barrels, especially if shooting with no patch or a very thin patch. The ball has a greater chance of roating around in the barrel when loading. This is the reason I want to remove the sprue in purchased lead balls. A .600 ball has a much bigger sprue than say for .50 cal rifle.

I have a.62 cal trade gun shoot a .600 with .022 thick canvas. Any muzzleloader shoot with the sprue up. Don't listen to any one who shoots sprue down no way can you center the sprue. I shoot 60 grs. 2ffg . Hoppies 9 plus for lube. Amazing what you can do with a smooth bore a no rear sight.

 

[Frontier's]

So all you frontiersmen and mountain men... Did either of the 2 mentioned.... use swaged balls?

No... So if you are not using hand cast balls, you're not in the correct time period... PERIOD

 

[Professor flintlock]

So all you frontiersmen and mountain men... Did either of the 2 mentioned.... use swaged balls?

No... So if you are not using hand cast balls, you're not in the correct time period... PERIOD

I cast all my own and I shoot alot can shoot the six bottle target putting at least five in the bottle neck. Don't care about being period correct just want to shoot your socks off!

 

[Sun City]

Yes, but what is the best way to remove the sprue if you want to?

My method is to order swaged balls from HORNADY!! They shoot mighty fine!

 

[Professor flintlock]

Tumble them if you must. Waist of time and effort.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

WRGAS

 

[chiller]

My method is to order swaged balls from HORNADY!! They shoot mighty fine!

Hornady sells round ball up to .58 cal but, my smoke stick is .62 cal or .600 so Hornady is no option for me.