The "extinction" of inexpensive sidehammer guns.

[WV_Hillbilly]

Well, I did finally make it online again. Dial-up is pretty slow and not very reliable around here. Dinner was good, though not the best batch I've ever fried.

I received a reply from Traditions Muzzleloading, regarding discontinuation of sidelock guns and pistols. At least for now, we can breathe a "sigh of relief"... to paraphrase, "Traditions has no intention to discontinue production and sale of sidelock guns, pistols, and cap-n-ball revolvers."

I think CVA is "shooting their own foot", or "poo-ing in their own mess kit", whichever saying you prefer. It was those inexpensive (i.e. CHEAP!) muzzleloaders with which "most" of us became introduced to muzzleloading. (about 30yrs ago for me) I think the most recent Mt. Stalker I got from Bass-Pro was $49.99 plus $10 shipping. That price even beat Wal-Mart's CVA "Bobcat" by $10 too. These guns were great for a beginner or for a "loaner rifle". Traded that one off with some other material just a few months ago. Now I wish I had a truckload of them (Mt. Stalkers that is, or Bobcats).

I have long since "graduated" to better quality muzzleloaders; but cost vs. performance in a CVA is not too shabby at all. Same goes for the Traditions guns, which I roughly consider as equals to CVA in quality.

I can't honestly comment on whether the CVA inlines are "safe" or "magnum capable". I have heard that some of the early CVA inlines didn't hold up too well. I proof test all the muzzleloading guns that I intend to shoot. I won't give the charge weight or projectile info for the loads. Wouldn't want someone to think I am recommending that kind of thing as a regular practice. Of course, if I ever did want to shoot pelletized black powder substitutes and saboted & jacketed pistol bullets with 209 shotgun primers... you can bet I'd be doing some pretty severe overloads and proofs tests before I deemed it to be user friendly. 'Nuff said about that... the thoughts of having only inlines to shoot is making me queazy.

Anyhow, here's the score for inexpensive sidelock guns. Traditions - 1 CVA - 0

Shoot safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[lefty41]

Thanks for the info WV_Hillbilly. I just picked up another Traditions sidelock at a pawn shop. The Hawkin Woodsman in .50 with a 1 in 66 barrel. After some scrubbing the bore looks great and the set trigger is working very well. Some discoloration on the brass parts but the wood is in terrific shape. More and more I like the sidelocks better than the inlines I started with. Now to just find time to tune them in.
BTW, I am originally from the Huntington area (Ceredo-Kenova) and hunt each year in Monroe County near Union.
Have fun!

 

[CrackStock]

The loss of CVA is not a big problem for me. I kept trying to help people fix the locks on those guns and they were just more trouble than they were worth.

On the other hand, the barrels often seemed pretty good -- go figure.

CS

 

[Tumblernotch]

You poor feller. It's sad to see one of our own leave the state. If the job situation don't git any better I might have to foller ye! You all are getting me interested in buying cheap sidelocks from them pawnshops. I ain't been in one for a while. What's the average price range you find there? A man never knows, he might find one with a Douglas barrel on it and as Martha says "That would be a good thing."

Still stuck in the Mountain State

 

[lefty41]

KanawhaRanger,
It has been many years (1968) since I had to leave WV because of work. Am, and forever will be, proud of being born and raised in West Virginia. Here in central Ohio I have found a couple of decent buys at pawn shops, one was a Traditions Deerhunter in .50 cal. (1 in 48) price wasn't real good ($90.00) but the condition was excellent after a barrel scrubbing. Bought because of a .32 cal that I have that the barrel could be interchanged. Ended up liking both, the .50 has the older steel front sight and the .32 has their newer fiber optic front sight. This last Traditions, the Hawken Woodsman, I bought for $60.00 and it will be a good one as I described in the earlier post. Also, I have bought, at a gun shop, a used T/C New Englander in .50 cal. with a 1 in 48 twist, only gave $90 for it and it is about 90% condition. Found a 12ga. barrel at Fox custom shop.
Well I have talked too long, but as you can see, there are fairly inexpensive good buys out there.
Good luck and safe hunting!

 

[Tumblernotch]

Thanks Lefty. Maybe someday you can get back here to stay. Those prices sound pretty decent. I shoot a .40 flint longrifle that I built myself and I prefer custom guns over off-the-shelf guns, but I like to tinker a bit and think it would be interesting to "rebuild" one using some of it's parts and some of my own. Perhaps I should finish the .40 percussion LR that I started several years ago before I start a new project, huh? Take care and get back here as soon as you can!
:thumbsup:

 

[cayugad]

WV_Hillbilly

I think you are right on the money reference your views of CVA making a mistake. Although many people do not like the CVA rifles or the parts of CVA rifles, I have shot a CVA rifle in one form or another for over 25 years I think. The first black powder rifle I fired was a CVA .58 caliber. I do not think it was called a Hawkins, but it was some such model similar to one.

A friend had it and we used to go to his range and blast away all afternoon. That CVA fired perfect and was very accuracte. My friend shot that rifle for many years until the stock broke and he sold it. Shooting that rifle is what lead to the purchase of my first black powder rifle which was a .54 caliber T/C Renegade.

I have owned CVA rifles for years. I have never had a problem with a single CVA rifle I have owned. I still own a number of their products. It is a shame that they are going to stop making the traditional rifles. It was an inexpensive way for people to get their feet wet with the traditional sense of black powder. I hope the other companies produce a rifle that will pick up the slack..

 

[Rebel]

Sounds like your friend had a CVA Big Bore Mt. Rifle. A real good gun. Those Mt. Rifles were real accurate shooters.

 

[Tahquamenon]

Sounds like your friend had a CVA Big Bore Mt. Rifle. A real good gun. Those Mt. Rifles were real accurate shooters.

Yep it sure does. I've got one that is thrashed with really high mileage and the barrel is shot out.

The guy I bought it from many years ago, told me he had put well over 2k rounds through it.

I've put at least 1200 rounds through it, not all of them kind and although it still shoots fair, the accuracy is starting open up and the lock is acting up again. I'm going to re-finish the stock, plug the barrel and turn it into wall mount. I'd say I'm fond of it as I plan on looking at it every day. ::

 

[Tumblernotch]

My first flintlock was CVA Hawken halfstock in flint. In the late 70's. I had a bit of trouble with ignition for a while. It had a patent breech and the vent made a right angle turn into the barrel. One shot was enough to plug it up. Not having the tools or knowhow, I turned it over to a fellow in our club who was a master builder. He did some enlarging of the hole inside the breech and some other stuff that he didn't elaborate on what he did. It worked fine after that. It had a beautiful stock and the hardware to wood fit was very good. It wasn't the best shooter in the world but it was a looker!

 

[cayugad]

That might be it. The accuracy of that rifle was really excellent. He also had an original (handed down through the family) Springfield rifle that we used to shoot. From his back deck across his private ponds to the other side of the ponds was around 120 yards and we used to shoot gallon plastic milk jugs, resting off the deck rail with both rifles all the time... He was much better at it then I was but I think it was because he practiced all the time..

He bought that CVA because he liked to deer hunt with it and we had gotten into the rendezvous circut at that time...

That Springfield Rifle was real accurate but he never loaded it too heavy as I remember. Not like the CVA...

 

Does anyone know what the average "price" was of the CVA Hawken jest before CVA quit make'em,.... and how thet "price" compares to the "price" Deer Creek is now ask'n for the U.S. made Mountain Rifle (or, whatever it's called)??????

YMHS
rollingb

 

[boar]

I have 6 cva now I just gave my grandson a 50 Botcat he is 11 I have 2 mt rifles flint&cap made in usa 1 ky made in usa 2 St Louis hawkins with two barrels each 50&54 I hunt deer with the one I shot 7 with it 80gr 2ffpb 2 killed over 100 yrds with it I might hunt next year with the mt flint 45 I have killed 5 with 50 flint tc hawkan Dilly

 

[Slamfire]

Sounds like your friend had a CVA Big Bore Mt. Rifle. A real good gun. Those Mt. Rifles were real accurate shooters.

I saw one today for only $325, and $475 for the .50 double rifle. :shake:

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

Sounds like your friend had a CVA Big Bore Mt. Rifle. A real good gun. Those Mt. Rifles were real accurate shooters.

I know where there is one of those right now for sale. It has a price tag of "$250 or TRADE", and I know the owner very well. The gun doesn't look like it was used very much either. I'm looking for a small bore rifle (.36 or .32) right now though.

I'm not trying to "sell" on this forum, the classified section is for that, but if someone is interested in this .58 let me know with a PM, and I can give you more info.

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly