The influence of preliminary period in handgonne shooting

[Spiridonov12]

I have noticed since long ago that many 15th century iconographic sources, which contain images of handgonners using hand firearms, bear a very interesting peculiarity. Such peculiarity of the matter is that often a handgonners is shown at the moment of firing a shot and at the same time holding a handgonne with two hands (Fig. 1-10). At first sight it looks paradoxical, so far as it would seem as if at the moment of shot with one hand the handgonner had to hold the slow match or a piece of smoldered tinder being placed close to the touch hole. However, the feeling of paradox is caused by the fact that many of us when operating Muzzleloading firearms, have dealt with up-to-date black powder, which secures a very short preliminary period at shooting (Internal ballistics assumes the time from beginning of the charge burning till the beginning of the bullet’s move as a preliminary period). However, we must not forget, that the so called ”˜pre-corned powder’ (not granular) was used in the 15th century. That is, a non-granulated gunpowder, representing in itself the fine powder which is a mix of saltpeter, sulphur and coal. It should be noted that such powder has a considerably longer preliminary period than the up-to-date black powder. Besides, it transfers ignition to the charge along the touch hole considerably longer. According to all above-said we may come to conclusion, that there is not at all any paradox in fact. Nothing less, than the handgonner after having placed the slow match or a piece of smoldered tinder close to the touch hole and ignition of powder in it, managed to remove his hand off the touch hole and get a better grip on the weapon with two hands. But what is more, my experiments have shown that during time of powder burning-out in touch hole plus the time of preliminary period duration, one may not only grip the weapon with two hands, but manage to aim reliably enough.
And what makes me feel good is that besides of experimental proof of this hypothesis, a single one of the unique images of the 15th century luckily has been preserved (Siege of Arras, Monstrele chronicles (end of the 15th century) Fig. 11). We can see 4 handgonners in the picture. All of them hold firearms of the same model. Three handgonners are shown right in the moment of firing, and holding the firearms with two hands at that. But again we do not see the ignition moment. The most important thing is that the fourth handgonner (Fig. 11A) holds the firearms in an unfit for aiming and shooting position at the same time carries out powder ignition in the touch hole. It means only one thing that this image quite clearly states as follows: the handgonner has enough time after ignition to place the firearms in a position fit to aim before the shot has been fired. By the way, I consider that such effect is just a reason of absence of the serpentine (fr. Clef) total prevalence on the hand firearms in the 15th century en spite of its simplicity and the fact that this device appeared in 1411 at least, and one of the miniatures available in Viennese Library kriegsbuch is the evidence for such fact. Its availability simply had not any significant sense whatsoever. With such effect is linked one more interesting peculiarity to my opinion,. Namely, «disproportionately» wide touch holes of the 15th century hand firearms. Michael, I remember You expressed perplexity as regards big width of the 15th century barrels’ touch holes. For instance, one handgonne available in a private collection, while having a 12 mm. «childish» caliber has a 4 mm. touch hole width. Your perplexity is fair enough, and I conclude from what you say that such wide touch holes influence on the compression badly. However, I am under the impression, that the touch holes were made as such, minding something behind that. The fact is that my experiments with touch holes of different width showed: more wide the touch hole was the longer preliminary period was. I believe that wide touch holes were made deliberately in order to enlarge delay from the ignition moment till the moment of firing a shot with the purpose to get much time for putting the firearm into natural position for the shot and aiming. Apart illustrations, please find attached my tests video recording. My first four videos show firing effected under stylization (geometric parameters are being ignored) handgonne from Tabor (about 1420-30). Calibre is 17 mm (does not accord with the original), touch hole diameter is З mm, bullet weight is 22 g., wads’ weight is 1.2 g., charge weight is 8 g. Average time of inoculating burnout powder made 2,51 s., average preliminary period made 0,95 s., average full delay time made 3,46 s.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhIAnid89Rg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unlJzADf5yo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RwiF02TEqg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqVIXpRp-j0

The fifth video recording shows shooting fired from an replica of the barrel from Michael’s collection (about 1460). Calibre is 16 mm, touch hole diameter is З mm, bullet weight is 22 g., wads’ weight is 1.2 g., charge weight is 8 g.
Time of inoculating burnout powder made 1,84 s., preliminary period made 1,2 s., average full delay time made 3,04 s.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q92PTuw3lpU

Screenshots (Fig. 12-13) got something similar to how handgonner were shown in the 15th century book miniatures.

(tags: handgonne, bössor, faustrohr, coulevrine, schiopetto, ручница )

My original post is there http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13209

 

[raszpla]

I regret that I do not know the English language can not lead the discussion.
I am convinced that many interesting topics - aspects of my escapes from my nose, sorry but what.
That's life.
Greetings from Polish!
Bolek

 

[trent/OH]

i didn't know that handgonnes could be so slow to fire. You learn something every day.

What is the source of your pre-corned powder? When did powder begin to be manufactured in granular form?

 

[BillinOregon]

Spiridonov: Thank you for your most excellent post! It had not occurred to me that there was such a long and consistent ignition delay with non-corned powder. Thanks to your videos, it makes perfect sense that this delay would provide ample time for gripping and aiming the piece, making the handgonner far more effective on the battlefield.
I must wonder what the effect of the large-diameter touchhole has on pressure and velocity. It would be very interesting to start with a 2mm touchhole, chronograph the load, then open up the hole to 3, then 4 mm, comparing the velocities.
Could we see a closeup of your handgonne barrel?

 

[Bob Riegl]

I want to mimic what Billin Oregon has stated and many thanks to our Russian and Polish friends for being proactive an adding to my knowledge on my favorite topic---the Medieval Period and Firearms of that Age (sounds good for a book title). Also adding another forum to browse and chime in. My mother was Chairman of History at a local University and her specialty was the Medieval Ages so I was introduced to this at a very young age and we traveled often to the NY Metropolitian Museum of Arts---where I became the kid that used to hangout in their Arms and Weapons displays. My Mom never had to know where I would be when she was in with the museum staff. Thanks again Raszpla and Spirodinov for you contributions."Doc"

 

[Spiridonov12]

What is the source of your pre-corned powder?

My English is too bad. That is why i have made mistake. I have written "pre-corned powder" but it would be better to call not granulated powder as Serpentine powder ( I mean dry mix). Sorry i don't know all English terminology.

When did powder begin to be manufactured in granular form?

This is a theme for separate study. Some facts suggest that it was invented back in the 15 century. However, it seems that corned powder became common known only in the early 16 th century. In France order to load corned powder the order was issued only in 1525 year.

 

[Spiridonov12]

Could we see a closeup of your handgonne barrel?

Yes, sure

The original of this barrel is in collection of Michael Trömner: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11038&highlight=tube

 

[dave_person]

Hi Spiridonov,
Thank you for an excellent thread and wonderful research. You posited a very plausible hypothesis and provided compelling evidence that it is correct. Please keep posting when you have the time and inclination to do so. I look forward to hearing more from you.

dave

 

[tg]

I wonder how knowledgable, accurate the artists really were to detail? notice the postion of the bowmens arrowsand the crossbowmans hands I suspect that we may not want to put a lot of stock into the details of the weapons use in many works of art.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Tg,
The value of Spiridonov's post is not based on the illustrations in manuscripts; it is his actual testing of the powder and gun. The manuscripts simply offer more evidence consistent with his hypothesis. He provides multiple pieces of evidence from independent sources abeit of different quality. Nonetheless, that is good science and it deserves replication by others.

dave

 

[tg]

I understand, but just wanted to point out that very often period paintings and art work are often lacking in detail and clarity and need to be "used with caution" as any kind of evidence or documentation.The case with the archers here is an example, not a good illistration of shooting a bow, so how accurate are the depiction of the handgonne users? Not refuting the hypothesis here but stating that some of the pictures may likely be coincidental due to the nature of art of the time, it is not the same as photography but is often used as such.Written material holds much better.

 

What is being referred to here as "pre-corned" powder is more commonly known as serpentine powder. So called due to the hissing sound that the powder makes before actually building up enough pressure to expell the projectile out of the barrel. So, the procession would be, once ignited with slow match, a loud hiss, sometimes lasting as long as three seconds, then boom as the ball exits the barrel.

The use of fuse or slow burning quill, rather than a primed pan or fast burning quill, would give a handgonner ample time to aim their piece.
http://www.handgonne.com/images/zeus_3.mpg

As for how corned powder came to be, I blame it on the weather. Whether exposed to rain or stored in a damp dungeon, the serpentine powder some how became wet. Some well meaning individual, probably, ordered the muddy mess to be dried out and ground back to powder. This powder, ground to dust, was then loaded into a field piece and promptly blew the tube and those tending it, into smithereens. Sort of like loading a musket with ffffg instead of ffg.

CP