The Items of Faith. The Dogma of Muzzleloading.com

[TDM]

After all y'all you go straight to youins.

That’s better.

 

[SDSmlf]

All y’all just need to talk like us. Yep, something like that.

Not to be confused with ‘your not from around here’ the moment your mouth.

Learn similar lesson in Europe and other countries. How you dress, walk and act will identify you as a ‘Yank’. I can fairly accurately identify folks country of origin by what they wear. Nothing negative, just an observation.

 

[TDM]

Not to be confused with ‘your not from around here’ the moment your mouth.

Learn similar lesson in Europe and other countries. How you dress, walk and act will identify you as a ‘Yank’. I can fairly accurately identify folks country of origin by what they wear. Nothing negative, just an observation.

Yes, I spent more time of my working life outside this country than I should have. You stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[necchi]

Yes, I spent more time of my working life outside this country than I should have. You stick out like a sore thumb.

Wow, you mean it's the same thing we do? but when "we're" in a different country?
,,

 

[necchi]

This thread ain't even about the header anymore,,
.click.

 

[Coinneach]

I worked with some Aussies on a Washington wildfire a few years back. Coming off the line we saw a truck cleaning the portapots with the name Rooter prominently painted on the side. They laughed so hard they could hardly stand up. I really enjoyed working with those blokes.

We're kinda different, not that we try to be.

 

[ETipp]

One of the first things I learned after moving to North Carolina was that the plural of ‘y’all’ was ‘all y’all’. Likely the second thing was not to complain about accents.

Most all of my family was from NC way back up in the mountains outside of Cherokee. I was raised knowing their accent and learned it quite well.

One year I was flying on the fires and got dispatched to Florida, of all places. When we got down there and had flown a few missions we were put on hold. I was out walking around the airplane and I noticed an older fella standing with his arms on the fence just watching. So I struck up a conversation with him. He was a truck driver that had brought in another load of fire retardant. As soon as he began to speak I knew right away he was a tar heel. He was missing a couple of front teeth so even with my knowledge of that dialect, I still had to pay attention to what he said, but I got it all anyway.

A few minutes later we got a dispatch and had to hurry to get airborne. When me and there other crew member got into our seats, he looked at me and said "What in the heck did that old guy say, I didn't understand the first work he spoke and you engaged in a 10 minute conversation with him".

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

My biggest problem is listening to a female news reporter (the majority seem to be pretty young ladies) on location for whatever....they must learn how to Gatlin gun speech at reporter school...or how to say 1000 words in 20 seconds....very frustrating to listen to and understand; especially for this drawling Texan!

 

[longcruise]

Not to be confused with ‘your not from around here’ the moment your mouth.

Learn similar lesson in Europe and other countries. How you dress, walk and act will identify you as a ‘Yank’. I can fairly accurately identify folks country of origin by what they wear. Nothing negative, just an observation.

My experience was a twist on that. I grew up in the UP. A whole different dialect is spoken there that is more Canadian than anything (think Red Green ). When I came to Colorado I was constantly asked if I were, or ACCUSED of being, Canadian. that persisted for years but mostly I now talk more like an American.

When in the service I met an Army doctor who was Canadian. He, out of nowhere said enthusiastically that it was nice to meet another Canadian.

That of course was during the VN war when many Americans were trying to become Canadian. That, of course, is irrelevant to this Topic but OTOH, the topic is irretrievably into the weeds, eh?

 

[chorizo]

My biggest problem is listening to a female news reporter (the majority seem to be pretty young ladies) on location for whatever....they must learn how to Gatlin gun speech at reporter school...or how to say 1000 words in 20 seconds....very frustrating to listen to and understand; especially for this drawling Texan!

Rapid young female speech is purely chromosomal. They all talk like that.

Doctor's offices employ many of that species and when they call and leave messages, I thank God for caller ID so I can 1. find out who called 2. get the information they were trying to leave me.

 

[chorizo]

Having lived in Europe while serving as an attaché and some associated duties , mostly in Spain and being Basque, I look and sound like a Spaniard when speaking and I made sure my dress and mannerism reflected where I lived.

I used to have to brief incoming attachés and my bit of advice was "Be one with the culture, Luke."

 

[Grenadier1758]

There is a very set dogma here and shame on ANYONE who violates that dogma. You must be a true believer.

You MUST only shoot the Round Ball, magic pill of death.

You MUST only use Black Powder (no subs).

You MUST never exceed 70 to 80 grains of powder, "you simply don't need to"

CVA/Traditions are trash (but there is a strong segment that calls BS. I call them the Reformist movement)

There are a few more, but minor compared to these. 100's of years, unimpeded by progress. I always get a laugh.

Let's make a real effort here and try to get back to the original posting. I know that's not the fun of running down rabbit holes, but I am going to try.

Way back in the dark ages, my hair was red with no hint of the eventual change to white, the dogma posted by chorizo was all we had.

Of course, back then, the local gun stores could still sell black powder over the counter and that was all they had as there were no substitute powders even developed. Round ball was the only choice if you wanted to load your firearm. It was a few years later that T/C came out with their Hawken and the Maxi-Ball they developed with Lyman. In fact, the only choice for round ball I was offered was a bag of buckshot roughly sized to fit my Navy Arms "Reb" revolver. That's how I learned about chain fires and even though I had plenty of Crisco smeared over the ball, I was almost certain to have at least one chain fire from each cylinder. I decided through research in some dubious gun magazine that I needed to cast my own ball for the Navy caliber revolver. I ordered a mold from Dixie Gun Works, they had advertised in the same dubious gun magazine. I ended up with a 0.360" ball. Well, I did ask for a 36 caliber mold, so I got what I asked for but not what I wanted. Even when I got the 0.375" ball, it was apparent that as it just slid into the chamber and didn't really seal that wasn't the correct size. That was when my father, a tool and die maker couldn't stand it any longer and showed me how to use a vernier calipers to make an inside measurement. You may realize why I feel that an accurate vernier caliper is an essential tool for a traditional muzzleloading firearm shooter. The chamber mouths were 0.375" and I needed a 0.380" ball. Pretty discouraging to be starting out. About that time Major George Nonte authored a muzzleloading book that espoused all the black powder dogma. It was a significant advance over the bits and pieces of information and misinformation available in dubious gun magazines and the other bits of dogma now being included in the Dixie Gun Works catalog. It wasn't until later that I got my copy of Ned Roberts, "The Muzzle Loading Percussion Rifle". Even that book supports the hidebound dogma traditional shooting and hunting. The Lyman loading manuals came out with performance data showing what to expect from loads up to 100+ grains of powder. No one weighed the charge, It was always a volume measure. Thanks to Dutch Schoultz and his "Black Powder Accuracy" papers the weighing of the ball, measuring of patch thickness and consistency of patch lubrication came out from being a nearly secret process. Sure, Ned Roberts hinted at such practices, but these were not mainlined practices.

Now we have these Forums to challenge or at times support the initial dogma spewed out 60 years ago. The NMLRA was still pretty much of a small group of shooters in Indiana. We've come a long way from that time.

 

[chorizo]

Let's make a real effort here and try to get back to the original posting. I know that's not the fun of running down rabbit holes, but I am going to try.

Way back in the dark ages, my hair was red with no hint of the eventual change to white, the dogma posted by chorizo was all we had.

Of course, back then, the local gun stores could still sell black powder over the counter and that was all they had as there were no substitute powders even developed. Round ball was the only choice if you wanted to load your firearm. It was a few years later that T/C came out with their Hawken and the Maxi-Ball they developed with Lyman. In fact, the only choice for round ball I was offered was a bag of buckshot roughly sized to fit my Navy Arms "Reb" revolver. That's how I learned about chain fires and even though I had plenty of Crisco smeared over the ball, I was almost certain to have at least one chain fire from each cylinder. I decided through research in some dubious gun magazine that I needed to cast my own ball for the Navy caliber revolver. I ordered a mold from Dixie Gun Works, they had advertised in the same dubious gun magazine. I ended up with a 0.360" ball. Well, I did ask for a 36 caliber mold, so I got what I asked for but not what I wanted. Even when I got the 0.375" ball, it was apparent that as it just slid into the chamber and didn't really seal that wasn't the correct size. That was when my father, a tool and die maker couldn't stand it any longer and showed me how to use a vernier calipers to make an inside measurement. You may realize why I feel that an accurate vernier caliper is an essential tool for a traditional muzzleloading firearm shooter. The chamber mouths were 0.375" and I needed a 0.380" ball. Pretty discouraging to be starting out. About that time Major George Nonte authored a muzzleloading book that espoused all the black powder dogma. It was a significant advance over the bits and pieces of information and misinformation available in dubious gun magazines and the other bits of dogma now being included in the Dixie Gun Works catalog. It wasn't until later that I got my copy of Ned Roberts, "The Muzzle Loading Percussion Rifle". Even that book supports the hidebound dogma traditional shooting and hunting. The Lyman loading manuals came out with performance data showing what to expect from loads up to 100+ grains of powder. No one weighed the charge, It was always a volume measure. Thanks to Dutch Schoultz and his "Black Powder Accuracy" papers the weighing of the ball, measuring of patch thickness and consistency of patch lubrication came out from being a nearly secret process. Sure, Ned Roberts hinted at such practices, but these were not mainlined practices.

Now we have these Forums to challenge or at times support the initial dogma spewed out 60 years ago. The NMLRA was still pretty much of a small group of shooters in Indiana. We've come a long way from that time.

Well said. I have read all those books. There are great bits of information. Dogma comes oft times from EXPERIENCE, sometimes from repeated word of mouth and most times from some experience (that hasn't been or can't be repeated) that is shared and repeated so often via word of mouth that it becomes "The Truth". At that point there are some that take "The Truth" as gospel and woe be the man that deviates.

And hence, the reason for this thread! Sure it was a poke at some of those folks, but what it really is, is an attempt to flush out the dogma, have people either crush or more importantly support the dogma with facts and real repeated experiences. That way we can sort the "chaff from the wheat" and further develop and improve upon our knowledge.

Besides it is fun and I thank the mods for letting this thread drift and wander, for I knew if we kept at it long enough, it would drift full circle.

 

[Mad Michael]

You’re both wrong. Chocolate pie best.

Chocolate Pie is second best! If you want something to die for (or maybe kill for),
My daughter's chocolate pie with a cheese cake on top, with a small scoop of Tillamook French vanilla ice-cream and some whipped cream is it.
Just another reason I am
Mad Michael

 

[Mad Michael]

As far as getting into a p*ss*ng match over it,
no thank you. Life's too short to argue over things that I don't care about and don't affect me

Ii sure had the wrong paradigm here, I thought this thread was good clean fun, not urinary Olympics even if it might have occasional bits of useful information!

Really getting old an crazier here
Mad Michael

 

[appalichian hunter]

Pure Alchemy from the old wizard's boys, Somes times all you gots to do it listen wit yer ears. If you callin the dog it ma come or it might not. Depens on yer intellect or lack thereof.

 

[ETipp]

My experience was a twist on that. I grew up in the UP. A whole different dialect is spoken there that is more Canadian than anything (think Red Green ). When I came to Colorado I was constantly asked if I were, or ACCUSED of being, Canadian. that persisted for years but mostly I now talk more like an American.

When in the service I met an Army doctor who was Canadian. He, out of nowhere said enthusiastically that it was nice to meet another Canadian.

That of course was during the VN war when many Americans were trying to become Canadian. That, of course, is irrelevant to this Topic but OTOH, the topic is irretrievably into the weeds, eh?

So you're from the up, Eh?

 

[longcruise]

Yeah, hey!

 

[shorthair]

Pecan, pumpkin, shoo fly, apple in that order. Actually, no such thing as a bad pie.

Nothing beats huckleberry pie with homemade vanilla ice cream.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Took the boss lady out for supper tonight, had a big slice of blue berry pie, thought about this thread and Canada bears while eating it.