Trev
40 Cal
Not just a Hollywood invention?
The loaded flintlock above the hearth
- Thread starter Mcat
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Guns at Grandpas Ranch were kept under the antler hat racks inside the enclosed porch (like a big mud room). You'd come into the house, lean your gun up against the wall between the pegs (to keep them from falling over); put your hat on one of the antlers and then open the door and go into the main part of the house. Young Grandkids would lean their .22's there and once you were 12 and got your license, you could use one of Grandpa's rifles for deer hunting. All rifles and shotguns went against the wall in the porch.
You always treated guns at Grandpa's ranch as if they were loaded because they usually were. Actually, we had to clear the chamber before setting the gun against the wall, but they all had full magazines and were always treated as if there was a round in the chamber. Rule #1, "Treat every gun as if it is loaded."
I never really thought much about guns being elsewhere in the house until the time we were taking horses up to a buck hunting camp in the nearby mountains, and our two pickups both got stuck in the sand. We saddled up the horses and rode them back about 7 or 8-miles to the ranch house, leaving our other two compadres with the pickups and other two horses. But we didn't go inside the house when we finally got back. Instead, we went to the bunkhouse and slept there until the morning. Grandpa said that Grandma kept a pistol under her pillow when he was going to be gone overnight, so it was safer to sleep in the bunk house than startle Grandma in the middle of the night.
I remember that night well because I ended up having to ride a horse with a saddle that didn't have adjustable stirrups. Didn't know there was such a thing before that night. And, of course, the stirrups were too long for me so I couldn't really stand in them. You really NEED to be able to stand up in the saddle. I'd switch back and forth from leaning towards one sideand standing in that stirrup and then leaning over to the other one. I was saddle-sore for days after that night...
Grandpa drove one of his tractors up the sandy dirt road to the stuck pickups and horse trailors the next day and unstuck them. I was very bummed because we were headed to a new deer camp for the weekend and never did make it. We often used horses to move cattle from one pasture to another, and after that night I always checked and adjusted the stirrups of the saddle of any horse I had to ride.
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Who knows? I personally believe the "hanging fireplace" rifle is a more modern image from books and early films.
The whole wall in our house on the west end of the living room is brick, containing the fireplace. There are folding glass doors with a screen behind the glass. The bricks above the glass doors do not get hot with a fire burning. One of my rifles, a .45 caliber full stock Dart brand and an EMPTY powder horn hangs above the glass doors. Actually we only use the fireplace on special occasions and then usually with store bought fire logs. My wife has suffered from asthma all her life, so we use the necessary caution. I take the gun down, wipe it off, and oil it occasionally. I shoot it very rarely, but it is a good shooter. I have so many guns, no single one gets a ton of use.
I’ve had a wooden mantle for 49 years, it has never caught fire and it hasn’t shrunk from heat anymore than the wood trim in the rest of the great room.
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while a few years short of the era in question, the first muzzleloader I ever fired was kept on two 20d nails driven into the face of a fireplace. the Rifle had been passed down through generations to my neighbor. the son of that family and I decided to terrorize the Rhode Island reds, and the Dominique's with the old gun. think we were around 10 and 12 at the time.
long story short we jury rigged some prime out of match heads and went forth to slay those dragons.
cock dropped, frizzen sparked, rifle barked and dragons scattered to the four winds.
we were both totally shocked that the thing had fired and quickly returned it to the fireplace. Ginny never found out we had messed with it, but she always wondered why her hens didn't lay eggs for a day or two.
that rifle had come down through a century plus, loaded and hung over multiple fireplaces. boy oh boy, i wish i had it today, most of a century later.
long story short we jury rigged some prime out of match heads and went forth to slay those dragons.
cock dropped, frizzen sparked, rifle barked and dragons scattered to the four winds.
we were both totally shocked that the thing had fired and quickly returned it to the fireplace. Ginny never found out we had messed with it, but she always wondered why her hens didn't lay eggs for a day or two.
that rifle had come down through a century plus, loaded and hung over multiple fireplaces. boy oh boy, i wish i had it today, most of a century later.
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I always thought a person hunting in the 18th century would likely get his muzzleloader wet, dirty, muddy, and if lucky covered in animal blood and gore after the shot.
He'd come home, have his son clean his rifle, wipe it down and not having an abundance of rags handy would hang it over the fireplace to dry.
If I lived on the frontier I'd certainly keep it loaded and primed.
How long does it take to prime a flintlock in the dark with dogs barking, children crying and screaming, and Indians carrying on outside the cabin?
Too long.
I think, like today, it would be by the door during the day and at night, by my bed
Sagebrush
32 Cal
I'm sure it varied from one household or another. If you lived in the wilderness, she was ready. If you lived in a civil berg where it was safe, she probably had an empty pan.
I have an original 18th century Dutch musket with a big check/ split in the butt stock.
It must not have been dried properly.
I recall about 60 years ago while in the Navy having to sleep with my rifle!
Marc H
32 Cal
When I lived in my 1830 house, I hung my Pennsylvania Long Rifle (not loaded) above my fireplace. I often used my fireplace, and the rifle did not degrade at all. Kept it there for about 8 years.
Marc
Marc
WinterHunter
32 Cal
Some things to consider:
1. Black power is a chemical. Like all chemicals, when you add heat over time or heat and cool cycles, it breaks down and polymerizes into that of lower entropy. If you run a hot fireplace, not good for wood or powder.
2. Frontier times required daily use of the gun if your going to eat or protect live stock. It likely wasn't in the gun long.
3. Most colonial homes I have ever been in and frontier cabins did not hang guns over the hearth. Pots and pans were hung there. Guns were at the doors or where they slept.
4. Lots of people confuse the pot rod rack for a rifle rack over a hearth.
I was always cautioned to run a rod down the barrel to check a “real” antique rifle/shotgun to make sure it was not still loaded. Seems a lot of older folks knew that from hard experience. It seems reasonable to expect it to be loaded, just not capped or primed, in the event of an immediate need. Like keeping a modern one loaded without one in the chamber. I think the men might have kept one over the door and maybe “Ma” kept one over the fireplace where she could reach it. As far as fireplaces go, I’ve lived in houses with fireplaces more than I have lived with out them. Nothing I’ve seen was harmed being on, or above, the mantle board. Nowadays; it doesn’t harm the DVD player, the TV, or the wife’s candles so I don’t think a long gun would be any worse-the-wear for hanging up there. Especially if it was used and cared for regularly as a active firearm would have been. I think they were probably harmed more by the lack of care once they got relegated to being just a display piece above the mantle.
Black powder is not a chemical. It is a compound of 3 components. It does not break down in the normal heat and cold of humanly-survivable environments. It does not degrade if left in a gun over a fireplace.
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True but with the metal barrel getting warm, then cold, warm then cold condensation will occur and will ruin the powder and cause rust. We were not talking well insulated cabin. Just my opinion on it. It did it to me I’d hunt all day in cold Michigan weather get back to camper bring gun inside, next two days same thing. Last day I went to fire it off and nothing but flashes in pan. Got home and pulled ball and no powder came out, thinking I just dry balled it I put flash light on touch hole looked down barrel for light and nothing. The powder just mushed all together with moisture from the condensation and I had to use a scrapper to break it all up and get it out. So it can degrade when u add extreme low to warm, back to low repeat.
WinterHunter
32 Cal
All compounds are chemicals. Not all chemicals are compounds. Do you really want to argue this with a chemical engineer?
I would think that the only way moisture/water could get to the powder is thru the touch hole or past the patch. Of course a good ole fashioned, slobbery spit patch might slime up the works. I doubt that there is enough water vapor in the chamber when a ball and patch is in place to cause a problem with condensation.
Black powder doesn't degrade like you describe. It doesn't separate into it's individual components when exposed to heat or cold.
Mike in FL
50 Cal.
My unloaded Colonial is attached to the mantle above the brick fireplace. Looks great. Never had a fire in the fireplace here in FL.
