The MVTCo 1740 Potsdam Musket

[Story]

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MP1740.SHTML

So, anyone got to handle and/or shoot one yet?

 

[Rock Island]

Funny you should ask, I have been eyeballing that one myself these last few days. If it shoots as well as my MVTCo Long Land Bess then I would be happy with it. That Bess has made me reevaluate my opinions about musket accuracy, it was a lot better than I was expecting from a gun made in India. No offence to India but I have seen a lot of total crap guns come out of there. I have one of their ships carbines expected on Monday, I will see how that goes before I consider the Potzdam, one nice gun could be a fluke, two would be the start of a pattern. I have read some comments about the Indian guns in other posts here, bad triggers, and other complaints, I had no problems with the Bess in this regard, but then I have a lifetime of shooting post 1865 military surplus infantry rifles from all around the world, I am well used to heavy triggers. The Bess ran around 6 pounds by my own feel as I don't have a gauge to test it proper. I have been looking over their pistols as well, I like that 1756 sea service, and the 1733 French, whatever their quality they can't be worse than some of the 1970's Japanese made "Tower" pistols I have seen, and owned.
Sorry, I should have said smoothbore accuracy, my Pedersoli 1863 rifle/musket has always been a good shooter.

 

[Celt5494]

I've had their Germanic cavalry pistol now for about four or five years. It fires well and I have no problem putting lead on a target at 25 yards. Not too bad for a smoothbore with no sights. It fires each time and I have no complaints whatsoever. The trigger is a bit heavy as is typical with military style firearms but you already pointed that out. Those folks at MSVT are great to deal with on the customer service end as well. I'm glad you made a post about your bess as I'm considering getting my hands on one.

 

[dd832]

There are 2 videos on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DolyC3i8qA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CobMiqT0NLE

Looks & functions well on the video. Mike

 

[Story]

Yup, I'd seen them and some of the Hessian re-enacters were quite satisfied with the fit & finish.

For what it's worth, the Rhode Island Regiments took alot of these off the field at Fort Mercer in October 1777 and carried them from that point on.

 

[Rock Island]

No problem, I have one Bess now, will have two come Monday when the ships carbine gets here, and I probably will get that Potzdam musket when I can afford it. I just cast another 455 .75 musket balls, I plan on shooting the hell out of that Bess, and the others this summer, it's the reason I bought them. Only my most delicate antiques live on the wall, I buy a new gun for one reason only, to shoot it, so far the Bess from MVTCo has done all right.

 

[chuckpa]

I hope you give us a range report on that ships carbine.

 

[Rock Island]

I hope to bring it out on Sunday afternoon if it's not snowing, or raining. She is ready to go with a nice sharp brand new English gun flint, and my bag is full of new cast .735 balls, the horn is full of fresh powder. This model is built on the 2nd model Bess, it uses a slightly smaller flint than the Long Land, and has a less ornate stock. This would be a devastating weapon at close range with buck and ball loads.
The musket shows great fit and finish, the frizzen sparks well, and it has the best trigger I have ever had on a musket, breaks smooth at about 4 pounds. It's got a nice feel to it, handles easy.

 

[spudnut]

Years ago I had a sawed off Japenese Bess that kicked like a mule :shocked2: I have a couple long guns from middlesex and I love em though my Narragansett bess is first in my heart.

 

[Rock Island]

All the black powder carbines used reduced loads, the US 1873 45/70 was loaded down to 55 grains. The barrel is to short to burn up all of a 75 grain charge, some of it is just being wasted out the muzzle before it can burn up and help push the bullet. I was thinking 55 grains of FG to start and adjust from there. I felt recoil for the first ten thousand rounds or so shot out of everything from flinters to modern black rifles, after that I don't even notice it anymore.
I need to get a bigger powder horn, the one I have from Dixie is fine for the pistols with their little 30 grain charges, but the Bess with it's 75 grains at a time ( Long Land) eats it right up and I end up going back to my shop to refill the horn before I am done shooting, it only holds enough for maybe 35 shots. My Walker flask holds more, but looks odd with a flintlock. Maybe two horns, or three if I am shooting away from home.

 

[paulvallandigham]

There is nothing wrong with carrying an extra horn. I recommend the idea in preference to getting a HUGE single horn to lug around.

I found the same problem shooting Smoothbore shotguns- my medium size horn runs out of powder after about 20 shots. I have two horns, and they go to the range with me all the time. I don't need that many shots hunting, however( except possibly on a very good day hunting dove. I have only hunted two locations where enough doves came into the field to fill my bag limit of 15 birds.) :hmm:

 

[spudnut]

Yeah I have a big horn I use for my bess but mostly I use rolled cartridge with a home made lube.I prime with the twoF I carry in the horn and use it for shot loads.

 

[Rock Island]

I hit the range today with the new Bess carbine from MVTCo, and I am very pleased with the results. I had just enough powder in the horn for 25 rounds, the frizzen sparked every time, not one missfire. My range is 100 yards, I would fire a carbine at 50 yards, but that would have had me in the mud so I shot it from 100. I was able to keep the rounds on a 1.5' X 1.5' target, no groups that could be covered by a dime here, but a few of the holes did touch each other a couple of times. I didn't think that was bad for a gun with no rear sight with a 26" barrel at 100 yards. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds of ammo but not all that many from a smoothbore with no rear sight, I am still getting used to this type of weapon, there is room for improvement in my performance.
I am pleased with the musket, there were no issues with it's performance, it is reasonably accurate. This is the second gun I have received from MVTCo that performed well, I sent them an order for the Potzdam musket a half hour ago, as well as a request for a pistol.

 

[chuckpa]

Thanks for that range report on the ships carbine.
I was wondering how one of those would shoot.

 

[Rock Island]

No problem, it shot better than I thought it would with so short a barrel. MVTco has informed me that they have a Potzdam in stock for me, and it should ship this week, but a pistol I wanted is backordered.

 

[Rock Island]

OK, I just pulled a brand new MVTco 1740 Potzdam musket out of the box. It's a nice enough looking piece, it's going to take me a couple of hours to scrub the paste wax out of corners of the stock. looks like someone used car wax, common enough among the museum collections but I have never had a gun shipped to me with it on it before. I use it to preserve my wallhangers. The barrel shines brite enough to blind bystanders in the sun, it will dull in time I suppose. The trigger is tighter than it was on the ships carbine, more like the one on the long land Bess I have. The frizzen showers sparks when struck by the flint, all seems well with the lock, looks like this weekend is rained out for any range tests. I like the large brass front sight, a bit more like what I am used to, I have no idea what to do with that odd little scoop out of the tang that is supposed to be for aiming, I guess I will be learning by experimentation.
I have no Hessian rifles to compare this gun to so I can't comment on how close to the real thing it is. It is a nice looking shooter, lot of brass, fancy stock carvings, and a good balance. It looks good hanging up on the rack, not as good as the original US 1868 50/70 Springfield hanging above it, but nice all the same. I will let you know how well it shoots once I can hit the range.

 

[Story]

Just to be the Devil's Advocate, Prussian Seven Years War (aka French & Indian War, here in North America) and Hessian units were capable of firing five rounds per minute - compared to the British three rounds per minute.

In addition to the cone-shaped touchhole on the 1740, the thick Potsdam ramrod didn't need to be swung around - thus eliminating one of the steps in loading.

 

[Rock Island]

The shorter barrel probably helped also. The rod is thicker than the Bess, considerably thicker, the repop lacks the cone shaped touchhole, that could be remedied I suppose, but I will leave well enough alone. I haven't shot it yet, if we get a rain free weekend I will have some fun. I like the feel of the piece better than the Bess, my eye lines up on the barrel easier, and quicker. Five shots per minute, or even three shots per minute is a bit beyond me just now unless I start manufacturing cartridges, someplace I have a little pamphlet I picked up during the Bicentennial celebration explaining how the cartridges are made. Then there would be the need for a cartridge box, I have one for my 1863 Springfield but none for the earlier muskets.

 

[swamp yankee]

How is the balance? I have a M-1740 that was built from a Rifle Shoppe kit, and is muzzle heavy, to say the least. Needs a rest like an arquebus.

Brian

 

[Rock Island]

The long barrels with their large bores, and the full stocks make all of these big military muskets feel a bit muzzle heavy to me except the ships carbine. It feels better than the Bess, or Pedersoli Harpers Ferry 1816 I have. I will have a better feel for it once I can hit the range and fire off 30-40 rounds. I didn't bother with the bayonet, that would add to the problem.