The Ruger New/ Old Army

[FishDFly]

Cannot think of any pistol made in that style, that was made in double action.

 

[11Bravo]

What about the Starr double action? Which is strange to shoot with two triggers I might add.

 

[11Bravo]

rodwha, I guess I'm way too old school. I learned that shooting over snow you see if your using more powder than was needed for your bullet and patch. If you see un- burnt powder on the snow your just wasting it. I'm talking about only real BP of course. Now from I'm reading if I wanted max out of my ROA I would be filling those holes with Triple 7 pushing a RB.

 

[nkbj]

For the present 777 is the most potentially powerful substitute that probably won't leave a rearranged hunk of steel in the hand.

 

[Critter Getter]

Would a fully charged ROA filled with 777 be strong enough
for Iowa Whitetails?? I owned one years ago but never felt it powerful enough shooting real black. It was very accurate tho!! Greg

 

[Newtire]

I believe the Rogers and Spencer 44 cal. That never seen service that looks like the 58 REM 44 cal. Really looks good to me even though it has no combat historical value I think would be a nice pistol to have in the collection.

My Rogers and Spencer is one of my most accurate handguns I own. I heard of a target model. A guy was telling me someone won some mighty important sounding award with one. .457
roundball & 35 gr. 3f was my load I believe. Time to break that thing out again and shoot it!

 

[rodwha]

rodwha, I guess I'm way too old school. I learned that shooting over snow you see if your using more powder than was needed for your bullet and patch. If you see un- burnt powder on the snow your just wasting it. I'm talking about only real BP of course. Now from I'm reading if I wanted max out of my ROA I would be filling those holes with Triple 7 pushing a RB.

From what another told me about collecting ejecta from BP guns was that what’s often seen like that is the leftover crap from the powder burning, that if you collect it and put fire to it it doesn’t burn. Even if there were just a little bit of powder ejected from say a Dragoon with 50 grns and a ball, what little bit might not have burned would ignite in the huge fireball that’s following right on its heels. I don’t see how, without ridiculous amounts of powder the granules could make it through the conflagration we see in slow motion videos.

A different fellow who cuts down these revolvers stated that he found it took 3.5” of barrel on a typical .44 to consume what I think he said was a 35 grn charge with a ball.

I don’t really know, and it does make me curious.

Swiss and Olde Eynsford actually tend to both provide a little higher velocities but also have lower deviations than T7 using the same powder charge by the same person so that we can know his volumes were equal unlike my measure vs yours or his. The one advantage T7 has is it’s compressibility, you could get a little bit more powder in. It’s made me wonder if it didn’t account for some very impressive numbers claimed when I first got my ROA and started looking into this.

 

[FishDFly]

rodwha, I guess I'm way too old school. I learned that shooting over snow you see if your using more powder than was needed for your bullet and patch. If you see un- burnt powder on the snow your just wasting it. I'm talking about only real BP of course. Now from I'm reading if I wanted max out of my ROA I would be filling those holes with Triple 7 pushing a RB.

You have brought up days of long ago here.. Paul V. use to post of what you speak. He use to talk about it, using a white bed sheet, sure stirred up lots of arguments. Some tempers even flared.

 

[Tenring]

Newtire I know Pedersoli and Euro Arms makes a Repro of the Rogers and Spencer but does anyone else, I would like to get one some day but I have looked on line but with no success.

 

[rodwha]

Would a fully charged ROA filled with 777 be strong enough
for Iowa Whitetails?? I owned one years ago but never felt it powerful enough shooting real black. It was very accurate tho!! Greg

Well, with a ball you’d be teetering around the supersonic level pure lead seems to need to readily expand. In essence a ball at 25 yds from a ROA is comparable to a .45 cal patched rifle ball at 100 yds. It works. Ultimately if it expands it’s a good wound, and if it’s too slow to then it creates a caliber sized hole and has more than enough oomph for a complete pass through on a side shot.

If you are using a wide meplat bullet then you can expect to be able to go nose to tail through medium game. Kaido’s 240 grn bullet for repros was shown to plow through an average sized adult hog, I’d guess it looked to me to be about 150 lbs +/- but photos are hard to judge by, nose to tail right through him. I’ve used those bullets in my Ruger but knowing my guns I’d say you could easily get 30 grns under it, maybe a hair more in my NMA. Mr Beliveau’s ROA testing showed with a bullet and a reduced charge of T7 can almost hit 500 ft/lbs so that’s certainly plenty for deer, but I’d want something with a meplat as the Lee RN just makes a caliber sized hole if it doesn’t expand at which point a ball can actually be better as far as damage since it’s a little more blunt, however the RN can still penetrate deeply. I’ve read of varying degrees of just made a little hole to dropped it within a few steps doing nice damage. I’m guessing it was often speed at impact which is why I like very wide meplats as these cut much larger than caliber holes even at low speeds. And being a heavy bullet for its length it retains a lot of penetration capability. I’d like to see what happens when one of those strikes at a high enough velocity to expand!

What load do you have in mind for your Ruger? And is this a primary weapon, and if so to what range?

 

[FishDFly]

Pedersoli is your only chance, Euro quit making them years ago.

 

[Critter Getter]

Well, with a ball you’d be teetering around the supersonic level pure lead seems to need to readily expand. In essence a ball at 25 yds from a ROA is comparable to a .45 cal patched rifle ball at 100 yds. It works. Ultimately if it expands it’s a good wound, and if it’s too slow to then it creates a caliber sized hole and has more than enough oomph for a complete pass through on a side shot.

If you are using a wide meplat bullet then you can expect to be able to go nose to tail through medium game. Kaido’s 240 grn bullet for repros was shown to plow through an average sized adult hog, I’d guess it looked to me to be about 150 lbs +/- but photos are hard to judge by, nose to tail right through him. I’ve used those bullets in my Ruger but knowing my guns I’d say you could easily get 30 grns under it, maybe a hair more in my NMA. Mr Beliveau’s ROA testing showed with a bullet and a reduced charge of T7 can almost hit 500 ft/lbs so that’s certainly plenty for deer, but I’d want something with a meplat as the Lee RN just makes a caliber sized hole if it doesn’t expand at which point a ball can actually be better as far as damage since it’s a little more blunt, however the RN can still penetrate deeply. I’ve read of varying degrees of just made a little hole to dropped it within a few steps doing nice damage. I’m guessing it was often speed at impact which is why I like very wide meplats as these cut much larger than caliber holes even at low speeds. And being a heavy bullet for its length it retains a lot of penetration capability. I’d like to see what happens when one of those strikes at a high enough velocity to expand!

What load do you have in mind for your Ruger? And is this a primary weapon, and if so to what range?

I was thinking around 40 grains and keeping my shots to 25 yards or preferably closer........like 10-15 yards. Yes, I would use it as a primary weapon but not if it would be too marginal. Greg

 

[Tenring]

I did not know Euroarms stoped making them, will keep my eye out for a pedersoli. Thanks

 

[hrt4me]

Pedersoli is your only chance, Euro quit making them years ago.

I find Euroarms Rogers & Spencer revolvers for sale every week

 

[FishDFly]

You are talking about used, correct?

Problem with buying used, is finding parts if needed.

Broke pistol with no parts, they make a good fishing weight.

 

[hrt4me]

there are at least 2 sources for used Euroarms R&S parts

 

[Erwan]

You are talking about used, correct?

Problem with buying used, is finding parts if needed.

Broke pistol with no parts, they make a good fishing weight.

The Roger & Spencer is a pretty fine pistol, but nobody makes it anymore and also Pedersoli don't do this : all the pistol from Pedersoli are made by Uberti (Beretta) and finished by Pedersoli...
If you expect or want to buy a Roger & Spencer you can only get it in made by Feinwerkbau (rare and very expensive) or Euroarms and used...
For the parts, some existing places have this in their stock...

 

[FishDFly]

Thanks, that is what Zonie said, none new, when I was looking for one and be waring of finding parts.

 

[Tenring]

I was looking for new actually so I did not have to work on it right away, even if I could find a new one in stock.

 

[rodwha]

I was thinking around 40 grains and keeping my shots to 25 yards or preferably closer........like 10-15 yards. Yes, I would use it as a primary weapon but not if it would be too marginal. Greg

Sporting grade powder is your friend and would make your ROA more than marginal.