Thin stocks and heavy loads ?

[kyron4]

I have a CVA Frontier carbine , that compared to my newer Traditions guns has a thinner wrist and narrower forend for what ever reason . It's a handy light weight rifle and shoots concials (maxi hunter and Great Plains bullets) very accurately. However a 80 or 90 grain load of 2F packs a punch and I wonder if I'm tempting fate, just asking for a crack in the wrist of the stock. Should this be a concern ?

 

[64Springer]

I hear 2000 grain balls and 570 grains of powder is the cats meow.

Just kidding. Don't do that.

To your question. You didn't mention caliber. I'll assume .50 cal. I think you'll be fine with 80 grains. 90 grains is indeed punishing and probably not needed. If you can get away with less powder, to achieve the same accuracy, do it. Your shoulder will thank you.

I have four Traditions/Jukar/Ardesa rifles and never had a wrist crack. That beech is one tough wood.

 

[kyron4]

I hear 2000 grain balls and 570 grains of powder is the cats meow.

Just kidding. Don't do that.

To your question. You didn't mention caliber. I'll assume .50 cal. I think you'll be fine with 80 grains. 90 grains is indeed punishing and probably not needed. If you can get away with less powder, to achieve the same accuracy, do it. Your shoulder will thank you.

I have four Traditions/Jukar/Ardesa rifles and never had a wrist crack. That beech is one tough wood.

Yes, 50 caliber.

 

[S.Kenton]

I see No problems with your load and a thin wrist. I would however be careful to not let it fall over while not attended. I did just that many moons ago and broke the wrist of a custom.. I had to glue it and put 2 screws in, then hide the screws with epoxy mixed with sawdust.. it was an ordeal for sure!

 

[Rebel jim]

I too have a CVA frontier. 50 that I bought from the Gander Mountain bargain store in 1993. I have always shot 80 grain loads with .490 round balls and it is accurate. I have had no problem with cracks, but I always inspect everything as I clean. I have found the little frontier is one tough gun.

As 64Springer said above, try less powder, I have recently dropped to 65/70 grains myself. Less boom, but better on my shoulder.

 

[deermanok]

I have 2 CVA Mountain Stalker rifles, one has a 19 inch barrel, (cut down for a carbine) the other has the 26 inch barrel.
I generally shoot round balls out of each and for conical bullets, I use the Hornady PA conicals, 240 grain. Lately, I found a good combination.
45 caliber TC Maxi Balls, 245 grain with a Harvester 50 caliber high pressure sabot (black). I know, those plastic thingys.
Either bullet is very accurate. I use a 75 grain (V) charge of 3f Old Ensyford or Swiss black powder.
Not much of a shoulder thumper or hard on the guns.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

depending on how long yer barrel is, the Davenport Formula will tell you the max load your barrel can burn. Anything else is wasting powder.

Like the gent above, I have a 45cal with a 42inch barrel, and my max burn load is 74.5gr.
Thats all it can burn.
So how much powder are you wasting?

 

[Greg_E]

The fore end is of no concern, the barrel takes almost all of the load. The wrist is where the force goes, but how thin is too thin?

 

[Greg_E]

depending on how long yer barrel is, the Davenport Formula will tell you the max load your barrel can burn. Anything else is wasting powder.

Like the gent above, I have a 45cal with a 42inch barrel, and my max burn load is 74.5gr.
Thats all it can burn.
So how much powder are you wasting?

That would suggest that any increase in powder will not increase your speed, might even decrease. I haven't heard of this formula before, I'll have to look it up. Does it have "fudge factors" for things like 777 or Pyrodex?

 

[EC121]

As long as you are shooting from the shoulder, the stock can move as the recoil pushes your shoulder. Unless the grain is really weak or you have "pre-cracked" the wrist fibers by flexing the wrist during loading, the movement reduces the force on the wrist. Something solid like a Caldwell Lead sled could break a wrist with the sudden shock.

 

[tenngun]

depending on how long yer barrel is, the Davenport Formula will tell you the max load your barrel can burn. Anything else is wasting powder.

Like the gent above, I have a 45cal with a 42inch barrel, and my max burn load is 74.5gr.
Thats all it can burn.
So how much powder are you wasting?

When I got in to this I wanted biggest bang for the buck. I wanted my .50 to be a .50 BAR, if not that at least a 30-06.
Well you don’t need that. Ball at low velocity kills real well. Shot placement is far more important than Ft pounds. And number one rule get close get venison.
So don’t think I’m thinking one should beef up a load past reasonable I shoot 60 grains 3 in my .45/ 42” barrel gun. And that’s more than I need to turn Bambi French.
However I don’t understand the Davenport formula
Looking at velocity in a 43” barrel form Lyman a 70 grain 3F turns out 1969
80, 2106 a 7% increase, 90, 2237 12% increase and a hundred 2367 17% increase.
Or another way to look on it
50 grains 1665
60 grains 1831, plus 166 fps for ten grains
70 grains 1969 plus 138 fps “
80 grains 2106 plus 137. “
90 grains 2237 plus 131. “
100 grains 2367 plus 130 “
So inspite of some diminishing returns there is an advance that stays pretty consistent
Where I see a big loss is a proper barrel length (42” plus) compared to carbines. ( less then 42”)
In 36” a.45 gets 1975 for 70 grains and 2232 for 90, basically the same for the extra 7 inches
What’s your thoughts on this?

 

[oldwood]

A 4" pc. of foam pipe insulation slips right on , and gives a passable temporary recoil pad for heavier test loads , with a pointy narrow butt plate. I made my 80 yr.old hunting buddy an ultra light 6 + lb. , 50 cal. deer rifle. As a joke , my neighbor made a trigger guard , side plate , and butt plate , out of high pressure thick 1/4 " copper air conditioning pipe. I never thought about recoil , when I handed neighbor a brass copy of a thin , curved , Armstrong rifle butt plate for the new all copper parts rifle. My 80 yr.old hunting buddy reminds me frequently , after a range session , how the skinny copper butt plate makes his shoulder feel . I tell him he is a wuss/wimp , and so , he went for one of those recoil absorbing devises , to use at the range for practice. It's all good. For me ,lesson learned , I built an ultra lite .50 cal. for deer , and used a super early Lancaster 1775 stock style , that took an easy on the shoulder , wide butt plate. ......oldwood