This old lock...

[ppb]

I am considering using this "older" James Golcher lock in a Vincent half stock build.
Judging by the two lock bolt holes it may have been used in more than one rifle before this. As you can see the bridle is broken. Also, the tumbler is cut only for full cock operation. I am thinking lock parts from an R.E. Davis Golcher lock might be able to bring this old lock into service once again.
(This lock is coming from a really misused assembly of parts...)
Constructive comments welcomed.
Thanks in advance!

ppb

 

[Norman Brooks]

Cool looking lock. I have 3 original half stocks and they have full cock only due to set triggers. You may or may not have luck with fitting modern parts into that lock plate. Good luck.

 

[ppb]

Cool looking lock. I have 3 original half stocks and they have full cock only due to set triggers. You may or may not have luck with fitting modern parts into that lock plate. Good luck.

Thank you for your comment.

As you say, this little project may or may not come to fruition, but I'll take a run at it and see how far I get...

 

[44-henry]

Just out of curiosity is that a brass plate? I assume it is, but just wanted to make sure it was not the lighting playing tricks on my eyes. Neat old lock in any event.

 

[Whitworth]

That's really a neat looking lock, good luck with your project.

 

[JohnL]

That is a thing of beauty; I hope you can bring it to life!

 

[ppb]

Just out of curiosity is that a brass plate? I assume it is, but just wanted to make sure it was not the lighting playing tricks on my eyes. Neat old lock in any event.

Yes, it is a solid brass lock plate.
One of the things I found interesting on this ol' timer is that the tumbler has a set screw that could be adjusted to limit the engagement of the sear into the full cock notch. I believe that set screw is also the reason the bridle is broken. The screw head strikes the bridle's upper screw bolster when the trigger is pulled.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[rich pierce]

I’d think it amazing luck if you found a new tumbler that worked. I’d first measure the axle on the existing tumbler.
Another option for an experienced locksmith is to create both a half cock notch and fly on the existing tumbler. That might necessitate adding material to the current tumbler.
Before doing anything I’d evaluate sear condition, how much slop there may be in the tumbler hole in the plate and so on.

 

[ppb]

I’d think it amazing luck if you found a new tumbler that worked. I’d first measure the axle on the existing tumbler.
Another option for an experienced locksmith is to create both a half cock notch and fly on the existing tumbler. That might necessitate adding material to the current tumbler.
Before doing anything I’d evaluate sear condition, how much slop there may be in the tumbler hole in the plate and so on.

Believe me, the concerns you have mentioned have been considered. And as such, my skill-set and cognitive abilities have also been seriously weighed. This may take a while... However, I have time and a fairly good supply of bar stock. I can/will make the requisite number of mistakes, but will likely retire the project, hopefully, just before the time I get to the point where I can't recover.
Another option, depending on how much I think I need a brass lock plate, would be to replicate a Golcher lock plate in brass and and fit new parts accordingly. Of course, that would negate the intended purpose of using this lock.
Thanks for your interest and comments!

 

[smo]

Couldn’t the bridle be TIG welded?

 

[ppb]

Couldn’t the bridle be TIG welded?

I imagine it could be - there are some pretty nifty welders around. The break is seriously rusted, however, and seems fairly "iffy" to me. It's also a matter of trusting these old parts.

 

[LongWalker]

If you can find a copy, Pryor Mt. Bill's book on building locks will walk you through making and fitting the needed parts.

 

[Rudyard]

I own a 'degenerate hog rifle' an original with this 'only full bent 'feature .The set triggers bear on the scear ..Its meant to have just the full bent. I believe the user loaded then set the hammer on the cap till needed . Then set the triggers & drew it to full . Well enough hunting & well enough at a match.. Certainly we moderns might think it dangerous but I carried guns that way most of my early shooting forays . I found that just letting a hammer fall from less than half cock wouldn't fire the caps anyway. & carrying on half was hardly any safer I mean if it crashed onto a rock it might break the hammer anyway ( best not to drop on rocks of course !. )Iv'e made target rifles with old rebounder locks they are fine . . Since the lock is a original & made so I would see no need to modernise it to something it never was.
Rudyard

 

[ohio ramrod]

Bridles are one of the simplist parts of a lock to machine so you should not have any trouble finding some one to make you one if the available bridles don't fit.

 

[ppb]

Bridles are one of the simplist parts of a lock to machine so you should not have any trouble finding some one to make you one if the available bridles don't fit.

Thanks for your comment!
The part looks to be fairly straightforward...
I've never made one before - thought I'd take a run at it myself this coming week.

 

[ppb]

Follow-up:
Here's the lock as far as I am able to get with it. It was fun while it lasted, though.
a) borrowed a tumbler from a Davis lock
b) used the lock's face surface as reference to flat
c) made/installed tumbler bushing to ensure hole was round and perpendicular to lock face
d) plumbed and recut threads for bridle screws and sear spring screw
e) made new screws - about four sets worth to get what I thought would work (oversized to eliminate slop)
f) made a bridle - somewhat more robust than the previous one...
g) assembled the parts and lo-and-behold it worked - except that it didn't work well enough, in my opinion, to be reliable/serviceable.

I found that tightening either one of the bridle screws puts the tumbler in a bind. Backing off an eighth of a turn, things loosened up to the point I thought would generate excessive fatigue. I worried over that for a while - until I measured the lock plate thickness end-to-end. It was @ .035 thicker at the front end than it was at the rear end with a very slight taper in between. This is where I am now and I'm kinda bummed out. (The original hammer does not fit the Davis tumbler just right, either)

End of project.

What have I learned?
It would be really nifty to have the front and back sides of a lock plate parallel to each other - should have made that measurement first/ assumptions are a real drag. There are better metal choices than brass for a lock plate.

 

[dave_person]

HI,
This is a good project and a good learning process. Brass is not a good material for a plate although it was used quite a bit. There is no question that the inside of the lock plate has to be very flat to fit the parts properly. Your lock also has an issue in that it appears the sear drops below the lock plate at full cock. You would not be able to make it work when installed in the mortise of the stock.

dave

 

[ppb]

HI,
This is a good project and a good learning process. Brass is not a good material for a plate although it was used quite a bit. There is no question that the inside of the lock plate has to be very flat to fit the parts properly. Your lock also has an issue in that it appears the sear drops below the lock plate at full cock. You would not be able to make it work when installed in the mortise of the stock.

dave

I appreciate and value your response, Dave. Always good to read your comments. Thank you.