This one got a little hot

[rabjr]

A friend of my fathers gave this to me "cause I'm into old guns" As you can see it went through a fire. I know the 14 1/2" barrel is no good because of the fire but I wondered if the lock, butt plate and trigger guard were still salvageable or are they trashed too?

Only marking I found is what appears to be a flower of some sort, rose maybe, behind the hammer at the end on the lock. I very could be wrong as these eyes ain't what they used to be.

 

[gene mosier]

your barrel should be ok from the heat as they are generally made of softer steel, if its not warped. i see the lock is cocked. will the hammer fall if you pull the trigger? the springs can be re-hardened if not.same goes for the tumbler and sear. clean up the trigger guard and but plate and they will look as good as new.

 

[rabjr]

I have not messed at all with it. I did grab the hammmer and tried to move it even with trying to squeeze the trigger but barely got a budge so left it a lone until I have time to take it a part and look inside.

 

[necchi]

Boy, that looks an awfull lot like a civil war era conversion!
The north ordered 10,000's of'm from Prussia, most where 1820-1830 flint locks converted to cap in the late 1830's-1845 the barrels had two date stamps the one on the bottom was the date of conversion.
When the rifled springfield took over, they where retired, given to western travling settlers and/or sold to "dealers" in volume. Many were "sportsterized", adding a rear site and front bead, cutting the barrel back, changing the trigger guard..From what I'm told they were in magazines circa 1900 for 5-10$
I have one.
They looked an awefull lot like a zouve with 3 bands,,14" would be about where the rear band would have been

 

[Roy]

the lock most likely can be fixed..

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Swampy, it is Austrian, and a member of Lorenz family of military guns, possibly the M1854 Dorn-Stutzen or Jager-Stutzen. The trigger guard is the original and the short barrel is probably the original length or has been shortened by no more than an inch. What is the barrel length?

What appears to you to be a "rose" at the tail of the lockplate is actually the Austro-Hungarian double-headed Imperial eagle. Can you read a marking on the lockplate in front of the hammer? If you can it would be the date of manufacture.

Only a small number of these short carbines were imported and only by Northern arms dealers. In the North, some western cavalry units used them in training but few, if any, were used by active forces, the Northern cavalry was almost universally armed with a variety of breachloading carbines when put into active service. The South had no interest in them, their very successful importation efforts were focused on effective infantry weapons, primarily the British P53 Enfield rifle musket and the Austrian Lorenz rifle musket.

You have an interesting carbine there, too bad about the fire.

 

[rabjr]

I'm sure you know by now it's going to be a while before I can tear into this. I just quickly put a yard stick up where I thought it needed to be, so that barrel length could be off a tad, can't see anymore than a 1/4" but who knows, everything with the barrel is pretty loose. What struck me when I saw it was it doesn't look cut down, and looks like the original front site.

 

[R.M.]

What it is, I have no idea, but I do know it's not a 1860 Austrian Lorenz. My 1860 has the number 860 stamped in the lock-plate in front of the hammer. The trigger-guard is very plain on mine too.

 

[rabjr]

I gotta put Romeoh to work and see if he can't come up with even a busted up but fixable stock for it. :haha: :wink: Shame I can't at least get it so I can hang it on the wall.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Swampy: Yu can send That Stock to Dick Greensides at Pecatonica River, and he can make a duplicate of it for you. That will get you a stock that can be used to hang it on the wall. Give Dick A Call. This is the kind of project he enjoys, simply for the novelty of it.

 

[rabjr]

Ya didn't think about that, maybe a possibility, thanks Paul.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I'm sure you know by now it's going to be a while before I can tear into this. I just quickly put a yard stick up where I thought it needed to be, so that barrel length could be off a tad, can't see anymore than a 1/4" but who knows, everything with the barrel is pretty loose. What struck me when I saw it was it doesn't look cut down, and looks like the original front site.

It is not cut down, there is a small piece of the forend missing, maybe an inch and the original buttplate and triggerguard are fine. The lock may need work, especially the springs, the fire is sure to have ruined the temper, possibly that of the tumbler as well. The barrel might be shootable but it is soft iron (not steel) and could be questionable, it will need to be carefully and completely cleaned before you will know. First thing to do is get the breach plug out and clean it thoroughly.

A replacement stock is available from The Rifle Shoppe ($225) as well as a new barrel at $250, although my catalog is not current and they have had price increases. We need barrel length and some details (caliber?) before you can be certain what short Austrian it is, there are several and details on yours are lacking.

 

[rabjr]

I'm sure you know by now it's going to be a while before I can tear into this. I just quickly put a yard stick up where I thought it needed to be, so that barrel length could be off a tad, can't see anymore than a 1/4" but who knows, everything with the barrel is pretty loose. What struck me when I saw it was it doesn't look cut down, and looks like the original front site.

It is not cut down, there is a small piece of the forend missing, maybe an inch and the original buttplate and triggerguard are fine. The lock may need work, especially the springs, the fire is sure to have ruined the temper, possibly that of the tumbler as well. The barrel might be shootable but it is soft iron (not steel) and could be questionable, it will need to be carefully and completely cleaned before you will know. First thing to do is get the breach plug out and clean it thoroughly.

A replacement stock is available from The Rifle Shoppe ($225) as well as a new barrel at $250, although my catalog is not current and they have had price increases. We need barrel length and some details (caliber?) before you can be certain what short Austrian it is, there are several and details on yours are lacking.

I appreciate the info, thought for sure it was junk when I first saw it.

I bthink I'm down for the count atm, pills really kicking in, so when I get up tomorrow, Therapist comes tomorrow, :barf: , I'll check it better and try to get a goood idea on cal. Thanks!

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Whoa, take good care of yourself, I'll try to find out more information.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Really sweeeeet find! That's one of those pieces that just makes you wish, it could talk to you!
Keep us updated on what you find out about it.

 

[rabjr]

I was able to get up for a while today and took a look at the muzzle. I was surprised as it is rifled, with either 13 or 14 lands/grooves. Lots of crud so I lost count a couple times. The only thing I Had to measure the bore was a small metal ruler that measures 3/4" across. I was surprised at how many and how thin the lands/grooves were, hell I was surprised it was rifled.