Thompson Hawken nipple and ignition reliability

[coloradoclyde]

Before you install the new nipple, you might want to open up the old one 1 or 2 number sizes and give it a try

Why? Did you not read this thread? Is he stuck 785 miles from a store and/or have no internet?
How big should the hole be?
What's a number size? How can a person determine what "number size" they have before they know how to go up one size? And how does that correlate to a drill bit size? What should it be? 028,.032, .038--.050? Number 1? Number 2?

Also I bought some nipples once (don't remember where now) and the nipple holes where extremely small....they would not fire reliably in any gun.

Well that's helpful, Let's hope he doesn't get one of those.

If you buy a new nipple, get a Hot-shot nipple.

Hhmm,

Why? Did you not read this thread? Is he stuck 785 miles from a store and/or have no internet?

For the education...This way he can determine the proper size, affects on accuracy and compare with the new nipple.

How big should the hole be?

As I said; 1-2 number drill sizes larger than the existing hole. start with one size larger, if that doesn't improve the situation then go another size larger.

Well that's helpful, Let's hope he doesn't get one of those.

that is why I have instructed him on how to remedy the situation.

If you buy a new nipple, get a Hot-shot nipple.
Hhmm,

You don't like the hot-shot nipples?...
I was telling him to get those instead of standard nipples because they have a larger flash hole and the two additional draft holes.

 

[necchi]

For the education...This way he can determine the proper size, affects on accuracy and compare with the new nipple.

How big should the hole be?

As I said; 1-2 number drill sizes larger than the existing hole. start with one size larger, if that doesn't improve the situation then go another size larger.

Uhm :hmm:
For clarification,, what's a "number drill size"?
What is a proper size for a hole in a percussion nipple?
1/16? 3/32?
Maby .032?
Oh wait,, a 1/32nd bit isn't the same as a #32 is it?
So,, how are people suppose to know what size a bit number is?

p.s. a #67 makes an .032 hole.
An .032 hole is what's in an Knight Red-hot nipple for T/C as 1/4x28 and a 6mmx1mm for Traditions and a 6mmx.75mm for investarms/cabelas/Lyman.
I love the Knight Red-Hot nipples, no problem for over a decade, with sub's or true bp, and they have no "cross-drilled hole" on top.

 

[Grenadier1758]

What's a number size? How can a person determine what "number size" they have before they know how to go up one size? And how does that correlate to a drill bit size? What should it be? 028,.032, .038--.050? Number 1? Number 2?

What'a a number size drill and how do they compare to a fractional size drill bit? In this regard the internet is our friend. A simple Google (or Bing or your favorite search engine) search will come up with several drill size charts. Click on the following link for one such chart. Drill Size Chart

You want the smallest sized hole that gives reliable ignition of the main charge. If you absolutely feel you must enlarge the touch hole more that 1/16" (0.0625"), I suggest that you go no larger than a number 52 (0.0635") or 51 (0.0670").

I use a Hot Shot nipple in my T/C breeched gun. I have no issues with reliable ignition. I have had no need to enlarge the touch hole in my nipple. I do swab between shots and I will also run the damp patch to the breech and fire a cap to blow fouling into the patch. I will also fire a cap about every 5 shots to verify the flash channel is clear.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Number drills increase in much smaller increments than fractional sizes.
Without having the nipple in front of me I can say how big to make it....and I don't need to.... Just find the bit the just fits in the hole and then drill it out one or two sizes larger...
I thought that was simple enough for anyone to understand... :idunno:
The reason I do it this way is sometimes the nipple hole decreases in size due to hard carbon or rust and simply needs to cleaned out with a drill. it also keeps people from going "hog wild" with the size.

If this solution is too complicated then a person should just buy a Hot-shot or Red-hot nipple as many of us have suggested.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Number drills increase in much smaller increments than fractional sizes.
Without having the nipple in front of me I can say how big to make it....and I don't need to.... Just find the bit the just fits in the hole and then drill it out one or two sizes larger...
I thought that was simple enough for anyone to understand... :idunno:
The reason I do it this way is sometimes the nipple hole decreases in size due to hard carbon or rust and simply needs to cleaned out with a drill. it also keeps people from going "hog wild" with the size.

If this solution is too complicated then a person should just buy a Hot-shot or Red-hot nipple as many of us have suggested.

Clyde , I'd quit while I still had my whiskers :surrender: . They's ganging up on you ! :rotf:
What's a number drill ?? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Eddie

 

[coloradoclyde]

Clyde , I'd quit while I still had my whiskers :surrender: . They's ganging up on you ! :rotf:
What's a number drill ?? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Eddie

Not really... Necchi is just razzing me.

I guess not everyone owns a set of small number drills. :idunno: It's funny because they are easier to buy today than they were 30 years ago.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Sorry, I certainly did not mean to touch off the magazine. My Grandfather and my Father were both machinists, so I do have a bit (pun intended) of tool knowledge and experience. I also have a few tools here that you don't find in most garages, including NUMBERED bit sets. The instructions and the intent are all very clear to me. I took the original nipple that came in the gun, determined that the threads were long enough to reach too far down into the worm hole. I shortened the threads as well as the nipple neck. It now fits as I think it should and the hammer now sits at the proper angle to the cap. I will use the Thompson nipple until the others arrive, and now that I have been properly educated, will properly de-oil and prepare the gun for the next session. The issue I was having was not a pervasive one, but it was a nagging issue I thought could be cleared up. If the weather holds and the grandkids leave early enough, I will get out this afternoon and continue becoming good friends with the Hawken. I very much appreciate the advice and assistance from all of you. Drawing on this much experience is a true blessing.

Griz

 

[coloradoclyde]

:thumbsup:

 

[rdstrain49]

I understand why you can't understand why some don't understand what seems to me to be perfectly understandable, understand?

 

[Griz44Mag]

I understand why you can't understand why some don't understand what seems to me to be perfectly understandable, understand?

NOW - I understand!

 

[nwtradegun]

switch to musket caps.

 

[Griz44Mag]

So I am getting ready to get out to the range this afternoon, so I want to make sure I have properly cleaned and prepared my Hawkens. I cleaned the bore, put a clean patch on the jag and planted it firmly in the breach. I shot a quick blast of aerosol non residue cleaner down the nipple and pulled the rod out. Perfectly clean and damp from the cleaner. Fresh patch, back down the bore, got this bright idea about using a bit of compressed air to push any leftovers from the worm hole. So I shot a blast of 50 psi air from a 1/8" air tip held up against the nipple. My next move was to walk to the other side of the room and retrieve my ramrod. Dang, those little tiny nipples holes can move a lot of air!

Griz

 

[coloradoclyde]

Remember, compressed air contains a lot of water relative to your present humidity...
Alcohol absorbs water and evaporates quickly taking the water with it...

 

[mooman76]

Pop a couple caps, just before you do your first load.

 

[Danny Ross]

Hot shot nipples are readily available at most stores that sell muzzleloader supplies, they aren't expensive. Track of the Wolf sells them mail order. As mentioned you do want 1/4 x 28 threads. These were designed to put more spark into the powder for use with Pyrodex, because of its higher ignition temperature. With black powder you may not need the larger amount of spark, but it doesn't hurt to have the extra spark either :thumbsup: . The other thing is (and I found out the hard way) you want a loose fitting "damp" patch when you swab between shots. I use a misting spray bottle to control how damp the patch becomes. If the patch becomes to wet you can get moisture into the firing chamber, if it is to tight you push the crud into the firing chamber, and if it is both, well you get the picture. Then I follow with a dry patch. If I think I got it two wet I'll fire a couple of caps to blow the moisture out. When your shooting session is done and you bilge clean your barrel with soapy water, leave your nipple on for the half a dozen or so strokes, this WILL clean out the nipple and you won't have to do anything else to it for cleaning. You'd be surprised how much water can be drawn through that nipple when you bilge clean it. Then remove it to finish cleaning your barrel. As mentioned some use Never Seize on the nipple threads, I use Borebutter or Crisco on the threads of the nipple and then screw it in, then pull it out, and put more on so I am getting a good coat on both the breach plug threads and the nipple threads. I have never had an issue pulling the nipple doing this or had an issue with with rust on the threads. Also when you put the nipple back in, when using your nipple wrench just tighten it down till it is snug, don't :nono: crank it down tight. One last suggestion if you don't have one. Get a range rod to use loading when you are at the range and to use when cleaning your rifle. They also make a huge difference if you ever have to pull a dry ball. Hope this helps. DANNY

 

[coloradoclyde]

Pop a couple caps, just before you do your first load.

That was my standard operating procedure up until the great percussion cap shortage of a few years ago....Then I switched to alcohol.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have an filter and an air dryer on my compressor. I started using them because I had an issue with my air tools getting junk in them from the moisture. Have not had a condensate issue since I installed them. However, I think I will stick to the pressure can of contact cleaner from now on for the Hawken. The base is a high flash point fluid that evaporates very quickly and leaves nothing behind.

Griz

 

[Griz44Mag]

Just a quick follow up from todays session:
I put 24 rounds through the Hawken using the Thompson nipple. I swabbed with a patch damped with windex between rounds, followed with a dry patch. The accumulation seemed to be pretty much the same after every round, so I think the routine is producing good consistency. After each third round, I gave the nipple a shot of contact cleaner to make sure it was being blown clear. That seemed to do the trick. The only issues I had that I think caused a misfire was having a chunk of a cap lodged in the hammer well. When the hammer dropped I got a flash that was just not normal, and did not get a main powder charge ignition. After examining it, I discovered the cap issue and cleared it. The next cap ignited the charge. Another lesson learned, check the hammer well after every shot. So reliability went way up today along with the fun factor. I am now cleaning up and will get ready for the next outing. I am anticipating the arrival of some peep sights next week, hopefully this will help alleviate some of my aiming issues at longer ranges. Getting old sucks....

Griz

 

[Grenadier1758]

switch to musket caps.

I'm going to have to take the counter argument. The musket cap is too large for the T/C recess in the hammer. All that ball of fire is going to do is go all over the breech area and the nipples sold for the musket caps really don't allow much more fire to the powder chamber than a "Hot Shot" or Red Hot nipple. That large cap will leave more debris in the recess (well) in the hammer making for more fussing with the lock between shots.

A better choice for hot caps is the Magnum cap.

What is needed is good procedure to keep the flash channel clean so the flame from the cap gets to the powder charge. A proper sized jag with a slightly dampened patch to pull fouling out rather than stuff fouling into the breech. Occasionally using a cap to blow fouling out of the T/C flash channel. Use real black powder.

The real positive step to keep the flash channel open. Everything else just helps.

 

[nkbj]

There is a possibility that for your needs a "shot out" nipple is best because the back flow clears the channel. Yeah, I know, it sounds goofy but sometimes it's better.