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Thompson Renegade

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Titegroups

32 Cal.
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Mar 6, 2010
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New to this black powder stuff. Local shop has a Renegade for sale for $150. Just wanted to see what your opinions were of them, probably bottom of the line model, worth buying? How do you check a barrel on a muzzle loader since one end is plugged? Thanks.
 
Definitely worth buying..........if it is in good condition. Any used muzzleloader should be looked at very closely. There are bore lights made to drop down a muzzleloader barrel to check the bore. A flashlight also can be used, shine it down the bore. The Renegade was a less expensive, plainer version of the Hawken, but the materials and workmanship were equal. In fact, it seems to me that on average, the Renegades had better wood on them than the Hawkens. The last I saw new Renegades for sale, they were over $400.00

They may be the "bottom of the line" model of TC, but they are still a high quality muzzleloader with TCs famous warranty behind them.
 
$150 is a real good price for a TC Renegade,Some have a single trigger and some have a double trigger..Either is fine..Just shine a bright flashlight down the brl and see if there is any rust..If there is no rust in there get it..
 
I had one, It has been claimed by my wife. A very accurate and easy to handle gun. No problems after all these years. Bought new in 1982.
Jon
 
Kinda what I was thinking, not a bad looking gun for that price, I'll stop by in the morning and give it a better look. Saw it there not knowing very much about them and thought I'd ask someone more knowledgeable. Would be my first B.P. rifle, looks like fun. Be like a kid again with my first .22.
 
This may be a little overkill Titegroups, but here's my guide for inspecting used muzzleloaders.

Inspecting A Used Sidelock Muzzleloader

FIRST AND ALWAYS:

Check to assure the gun is not loaded. The quick and easy way is to put your mouth on the muzzle and suck. If you’re able to easily draw air through the barrel the bore is free of obstruction and not loaded. Do this with the hammer at half cock. Make sure there is no cap on the nipple. For flintlocks, make sure the frizzen is fully open.

Sometimes the nipple area or touchhole is blocked and air will not flow even if there is no load in the bore. If you don’t want to be seen sucking the bore (some here will be horrified by the idea), or if you get no air flow, insert the ramrod into the bore until it bottoms out. Now grasp the rod with your thumb and forefinger tight against the muzzle and remove it, keeping your fingers at that spot on the rod. Without moving your finger location, lay the rod along the side of the barrel with your thumb once again against the muzzle. The other end of the rod should be within an inch or less of the line where the breech plug meets the barrel. If it falls short of that location, there is something in the bore ”“ probably a load.

CHECKING THE STOCK:

a. If possible, remove the barrel from the stock and review the overall appearance of the stock. Hold it up to the light and view it from different angles. Rub your fingertips over every inch of the exterior.

b. Does it have the original finish, or does it appear to have been refinished? A refinished stock is not necessarily a detriment, and may even be an asset if it was well done and enhanced the appearance of the gun. However, a poor refinishing job may seriously detract from the value of the gun. The question is “does it look good to you”. All of the following are negatives: sanding marks, flat spots in the wrong place, an unbalanced appearance (i.e. one side of the buttstock or foreend is more rounded than the other), a wavy edge along the barrel channel), splotchy staining, a thick/uneven finish coat with build up in curves and creases. A poorly refinished stock may not be a deal breaker if the flaws are something you feel confident you can fix.

c. Check the fit of the butt plate, tang, lock, and trigger guard in the stock. There should be no significant inletting gaps. The edges of the butt plate and tang should not stand proud above the stock. Poor fit is not a deal breaker, but may detract from overall value of the gun.

d. Check and double check for cracks, especially around the lock, the tang, in the wrist, and in the barrel channel. Any serious cracks in any of these areas would be a real “price dropper”. An “unopened” crack, such as one so small you almost missed it, or that you can barely feel with your fingernail may not be a serious issue, especially if it’s not in a high stress area such as the rear of the tang or wrist.

CHECKING THE LOCK & TRIGGER:

a. Check the fit of the hammer to the tumbler shaft. It should be tight with no play side to side or fore and aft.

b. With the barrel in the stock, check alignment of the hammer to the nipple or frizzen. On a caplock there should be sufficient clearance so that the inside of the recess in the hammer’s nose will not rub against the side of a cap on the nipple. On a flintlock the front of the cock jaw should pretty well center on the frizzen. This is a judgment area; misalignment to one side or the other may be nothing more than the screw(s) holding the lock to the stock being installed too tight or too loose.

c. With the barrel in the stock, move the hammer to half cock and stop there. Listen for a good solid “click” and a positive “feel” when it reached the half cock position.

d. Move the hammer from half cock to full cock. Once again, you’re looking for a good solid click and positive feel. If the cocking action feels a little “loosey-goosey” it may indicate excessive wear to the lock mechanism, or it may only be that one or two of the small screws inside the lock that hold the bridle or sear are loose. A loose or wobbly feel calls for removal of the lock from the stock and further inspection. A lock that feels a little loose - but otherwise functions properly - is not a serious problem, it’s just less desirable.

e. Move the hammer to half cock and stop there. Push firmly on the rear of the hammer. If the hammer falls off of half cock there is a problem that will have to be remedied.

f. With the hammer on half cock, pull the trigger firmly. If the hammer falls, the lock has a problem. (IMPORTANT: If the gun has double set triggers, do not set the trigger to check the half cock. Pull the front trigger only. Using the set trigger at half cock may damage the lock.)

g. With the hammer at full cock, place a wad of patches over the nipple as a cushion, and pull the trigger. (For flintlocks, close the frizzen before pulling the trigger and make sure the flint is secure in the cock. An appropriate size piece of wood can be used in place of a flint ”“ a piece of a cloths pin works well.) If the gun has double set triggers, perform this operation with the triggers set, and with just the front trigger. The hammer should fall crisply for its full stroke, with no tendency to hang up at the half cock position. If it only falls to half cock the lock has a problem. The trigger pull should be reasonable, fairly smooth, and not overly difficult ”“ though using just the front trigger on a double set trigger will be noticeably heavy. That’s normal.

CHECKING THE BARREL

a. Visually inspect the outside of the barrel from front to rear. There’s little that can be bad here short of serious rust or pitting. Light pitting and roughness around the nipple seat of a used caplock is common and not a cause for concern. A pitted surface is highly undesirable, but minor surface rust or discoloration is not a real problem, depending on how anal you are.

b. Check to see if someone has tried to remove the breech plug with vice grips and a monkey wrench. If it’s bunged up, you just knocked a chunk of change off the price of the gun.

c. Inspect the crown of the muzzle. This is a very important area for accuracy. It must be round with no chips or nicks, and no indication that ramrod wear has turned it to an oval, or worn it on one side. The height of the lands should be the same all the way around the muzzle. If the bore is good and you like the gun otherwise, a worn crown can be fixed and you just knocked more off the price.

d. Drop a bore light down the bore (you really should have one*) and check the bore for rust/pitting. If the bore is clean, you will be able to see any pitting quite easily. If the bore is dirty, it will need to be cleaned before final inspection. If the seller won’t let you do this, either walk away or offer him only what you think the stock is worth. It’s a good idea to carry a cleaning jag, a couple of patches, and a couple of those foil wrapped alcohol swabs when you’re checking out a gun. A lightly pitted bore may shoot quite well and should not turn you off if the price is right. A heavily pitted bore is a junk barrel.

(*If you don’t have a light that will fit down the bore, drop in a ball of aluminum foil or a polished empty cartridge casing and shine a flashlight down there.)

e. If the barrel is clean (or after it has been cleaned) push a jag with a fairly snug dry patch s-l-o-w-l-y down the bore. What you’re looking for is any section of the bore that is of larger diameter than the rest, so that the patch goes down tight for a ways, then hits a section of a few inches where it slides very easily, then gets tight again. Such barrels have been “ringed” by shooting with a barrel obstruction, such as a ball/bullet that was not fully seated on the charge. It may shoot well, but it may not. I would pass on a ringed barrel.

- - - - - - - - -

So there you have my method. Don’t be afraid to pay a fair - or even slightly high - price for a gun that checks out well and you really like. But don’t be shy about pointing out flaws and negotiating to your best advantage either.


EDIT: Forgot to mention - I own four Renegades and prefer them to the Hawken model.
 
Went by the gun shop this morning and checked out the renegade, checked it over as good as I could in the store, .54 caliber, percussion, double triggers. Checked the bore and found some rust, asked the gunsmith what he thought, said he had seen many with a lot more rust, thought a good cleaning would be in order but looked okay to him. Checked the lock over seem to be working properly an smooth with positive clicks, no push off. Not able to find any cracks in the stock, just some surface rust on the barrel and lock bluing. Has seem some use but for $145 I couldn't pass it up. Has good balance in the hands and I like the sights. Need to clean it up a bit. Has that 25yr. old gun look to it. Can anybody suggest a ball size for this gun? Thanks.
 
I'd start with .530 balls. You might end up going to .535", but .530s with .018" patch is pretty standard.
 
I've had one in 54 cal since 1985. Have other MLs, but keep coming back to the Renegade for hunting. It just handles right for muleys on the pinon-juniper ridges and cow elk in the dark timber.

The only question that remains is which of my kids will inherit it, 'cause I ain't giving it up while I'm upright and breathing.

For hunting I use a Lee Improved Minie bullet over 80 grains of 2Fg real thing black powder.

White Fox
 
The lock and the stock are worth more than $150.

I wouldn't even bother to look in the barrel at that price.

If the lock works, and the stock's not broken............. :thumbsup:

.
 
Bought it. Just finished cleaning it up. Just light rust in the barrel, could feel no bulges in the barrel either. Happy camper. Looking forward to getting it to the range.
 
You got a deal on a fine rifle.I own several in .54 caliber.They are accurate,powerful rifles.And a lot of fun to play with.I think you will enjoy having it.If you don't already know,blackpowder is very addictive.Enjoy
 

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