Thumb cocking Remingtons & Colts

[Naphtali]

I have a question, but I'm not sure how to ask so anyone else will recognize what I'm asking about.

So here goes. I have very small hands. When I grasp my 1858 Remington, thumb cocking is more difficult for me than thumb cocking my Freedom Arms Model 97 or my Uberti Colt SAA clone in 45 Colt. For me the Remington's grip is farther from its hammer spur than both of the others.

Does anyone else with small hands notice this? If what think is happening is, in fact, accurate, any suggestions on how to adjust my Remington to bring its thumb cocking to the ease of the others?

 

[Khufu]

I know what you are asking, but I have large hands, so I do not have the problem. when I cock my revolvers, I point the barrel up and tipped to the right. I do this because fired caps tend to fall off the nipples, and into the lockworks if cocked level pointed at the target colts are the worst offenders, but it has happened on my remmy.
muzzle up and tipped right allows the caps, if loosened by firing, to fall to the ground. it also moves the hammer closer and easier to grasp with your thumb making cocking easier.

 

[Billnpatti]

Like Khufu, I, too, have large hands. I use a cocking procedure quite similar to his but I don't think I raise my muzzle as high as he does. I raise mine to about 45 degrees or maybe a bit more. In so doing, I let the revolver move just a bit back in my hand so my thumb is closer to the hammer spur when I cock it. It isn't a big move and my hand moves back to its original position, helped by my little finger which is below the grip, as I come back on the target. I haven't thought the procedure through in a step by step manner, it is just what I do as I cock my Remington revolver.

 

[M. De Land]

If I were in your situation I would heat the hammer spur and bend it down ward a bit more checking clearance fit against the backstrap.
Grasp the hammer nose and shank, all but the spur, in copper lined vice jaws for a heat sink. Heat her up with a torch and tap the spur rearward a bit at a time with a brass hammer. Keep checking backstrap clearance until you have what you want.
I would also checker the end of the spur for more purchase.

 

[necchi]

That's the only fix I can think of keeping the factory grip,
The 1858 is what it is,, however, somewhere in history along came the Birdshead grip; https://www.google.com/search?q=18...wECJUQ_AUIBigA&dpr=1#q=uberti+birdshead+grips

 

[Khufu]

your link points to Colt SAAs and they and lightnings are the only ones that you can fit them to, with a slight fitting, the bird;s head grip frame can be made to fit a '51, '60, and '61 colt. the remmies frame and gripframe are one casting, so to make it a bird's head, you would have to cut and bend and weld the frame. and thats gonna cost ... bending the hammer is not something that can be done without a tourch, so thats a gunsmith fix as well, and makes a remmy as ugly as a Bisley. the Ruger hammer is somewhat lower, but it is increasingly popular to use a replacement hammer on Vaquero's that are modeled on the Colt Precussion hammer geometry. I believe thay use the weak hand to cock while maintaining sight alignment with their strong hand.

 

[necchi]

your link points to Colt SAAs and they

Oop's Sorry, I did I didn't do all the work;

https://www.google.com/search?q=remington+1858+birds+head+grip&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[Khufu]

you know the bird's head actually moves the hammer further from your thumb. it is intended to make a belly gum more easily concealed. it would be very expensive to have a smith do it, and would make the OPs problem worse. adding a slip on hammer spur extention that secures with a set screw would be far less expensive to fabricate.it would also leave the revolver in original condition when its removed though just rocking the revolver, barrel up when cocking is the easiest solution

 

[Naphtali]

This may be a practical choice, but I am unqualified to do this. Following up your idea, I did a BING search for 1858 Remington IMAGES. Among the bazillion photographs were images where, I believe, grip frame [part] was reshaped. Most of these images were of snub nose 1858s. If I could identify a gunsmith who could reshape my stainless steel grip frame AND the hammer, this solves the problem in spades.

 

[M. De Land]

This thread reminds me of the old slip hammers put on Colt 73's for fast draw work.
The spur was more or less a paddle lower down and almost flat and quite wide.
These modifications didn't even use a trigger thus the term slip hammer.
Actually if your Rem hammer were heated and the spur curve flattened out, the end checkered, it would probably fit your small hands superbly.
An eighth of an inch of spur drop at the end would probably be all you need.

 

[Naphtali]

John Henry Fitzgerald, I believe, is the man who Mr. Keith mentioned as the person who used the slip gun technique to best effect. Mr. Fitzgerald was attributed to carry slip guns in both front pockets, never having both hands out of his pockets at the same time.
***
Can you suggest or, better, recommend gunsmiths accustomed to doing such reshaping of single action hammers?

 

[Grumpa]

John Newman was the slip gun man Elmer wrote about.

 

[swathdiver]

When I grasp my 1858 Remington, thumb cocking is more difficult for me...

For me the Remington's grip is farther from its hammer spur than both of the others.

The hammer spur on a Pietta is higher than on an Uberti. Uberti is the same or nearly so as the originals. That being said, what was mentioned above about bending the spur to fit their hand is what the really serious shooters used to do.

 

[M. De Land]

I do all this kind of work on my own guns as a Hobbyist but most any decent professional gun mechanic with a bit of experience could do this rather easy job .

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You may find that the 1858 is simply not an option for you. I don't think that the .36 caliber version is smaller other than in the chambers and barrel caliber.

Having handled and shot lots of the cap-n-ball and "Cowboy Action" revolvers [I used to work for the largest CAS gun retailer on the East Coast] I can suggest you look at the revolvers in .38 special when it comes to cartridge guns, and .36 Navy revolvers regarding cap-n-ball, or .36 "Police" or "Sheriff" revolvers.

LD

 

[Naphtali]

You are correct. Mr. Fitzgerald was Colt's face to the public who preferred New Service revolvers that he had Colt 'smith or butcher, depending upon your attitude, toward shortening grip, amputating part of trigger guard and shortening barrel. He is the man who kept his hands in his pockets. "Fitz Specials" are rarities when authentic.
***
Regarding migrating to Uberti's version of the Remington, I prefer to stay with what I have.
***
I erred when I referred to my Uberti SAA clone. I sold that a while ago and have Freedom Arms Model 97 45 Colts now. I superimposed my 97 atop my Remington to try to discover what differences there are.

Without measuring, rather eye-balling, with triggers precisely as possible atop each other, grip frames are almost the same length. The 97 is about 1/16 inch longer. The 1858's hammer is about 1/8 inch farther from back strap than 97's. 1858's hammer spur is shorter by about 1/8 inch and about 1/8 inch higher with less "trough." 1858's back strap is 1/8-3/16 inch farther from trigger blade than 97's.

In summary, my feeling is correct. Orienting from back strap, 1858's hammer is significantly farther away from my thumb while also being more difficult to grasp because of its abbreviated hammer-nose trough. Optimmizing its grip for me would include moving its back strap toward the trigger and altering its hammer to more closely resemble a Bisley hammer, albeit not nearly so exaggerated. Since, so far, no one has recommended a gunsmith for such work, it's time for me to find him.

 

[Bear Rider]

Simple solution:

Use both hands and cock the hammer with your off hand thumb.

 

[frogwalking]

What Bear Rider said. (I'm glad it is Bear rider and not Bare rider.)

 

[M. De Land]

Well that's a remedy but in my opinion a gun needs to fit the shooting hand in all respects to get the best out of it from either single or two hand gripping.
Also, single action percussion revolvers were designed for single hand purchase not double hand ("Weaver" stance shooting).
Actually anyone that takes the time to learn how to shoot a hand gun correctly will in time become just as proficient with one hand as with two.

 

[Artificer]

If I were in your situation I would heat the hammer spur and bend it down ward a bit more checking clearance fit against the backstrap.
Grasp the hammer nose and shank, all but the spur, in copper lined vice jaws for a heat sink. Heat her up with a torch and tap the spur rearward a bit at a time with a brass hammer. Keep checking backstrap clearance until you have what you want.
I would also checker the end of the spur for more purchase.

The Bisley Colt had a hammer with both a wider spur and lower at the rear than the regular M 1873. The Grip Frame was also changed to be somewhat straighter and longer. So it seems even the Colt Factory changed the revolver to the way some folks wanted to use them.

Gus