Time to scout!!!!

[longcruise]

Always good to scout though, beats going into an area blind and without any kind of plan. Bill

Yeah! I hate opening morning scouting in the dark. :haha:

You apparently did not realize that you could learn it all from a "field guide" did you? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Bill Hall]

No, it was the flies that got me. :rotf: :rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

For those of us who are experienced at scouting and hunting, it does sound silly to talk about field guides, and flies. But, after teaching Hunter Safety classes for more than 25 years, and teaching people, young and old how to move and how to track, it is far from silly to them. I did not know how blessed I was to live and grow up in a fairly rural area of Cook County, Illinois, where we could hunt, and track game. I did not understand as a kid how well I would be served by the lessons learned at so young an age.

When I finished my formal education, and could finally devote time to pursuing my passions, I was- admittedly naively--- stunned at how little people understood about the wildlife they sought to find, hunt, and kill. Hunters I met as a deer checker hit their deer through blind luck, and not the quality of their ammo, or their guns, or from practicing much at all. They mostly didn't wear camo-- not a bad thing, BTW--- and they just happened to be sitting or standing some place in woods when a deer came by close enough they could not miss.

These men, young and old alike, did not scout the territory before the season, or on opening day. The just picked a spot in the woods, and waited. The could not have recognized a deer track, nor deer sign if it bit them on the nose. They knew nothing of the daily habits of the deer much less their life cycle.

So, go ahead a enjoy your laugh. :grin: :bow: We are the fortunate people in this country, who have had the opportunities to learn a skill that is not valued anymore, and which is slowly dying out. The vast majority of people are now glued to these computers. It will not take long for printed books, and bookstores and magazines to disappear, too. It will all be on these electronic screens- or not. And our world will be the worse for those changes. :shocked2: :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup:

If anyone should understand that, I would think it would be people on this forum, who appreciate firearms that use 200 year old technology, when the world around us thinks we are all nuts!

I personally do my scouting reading tracks and sign. However, I do have several Field guides that have helped me understand better why the game animals I track are doing what their tracks are telling me they are doing. That saves me the necessity of spending hours observing the deer to get the same answer- time I don't have to devote to hunting because of my profession.

Its called, " reading sign", and I surprise people all the time with my ability to understand what wild animals are doing. Some of that credit has to go to those field guides, and the July I spent in Colorado swatting flies that made life miserable for both man and beast. These weren't the house flies we all know; instead, these were the tiny blow-flies, that attacked in swarms.

Later, On one visit to the Brookfield Zoo with my younger cousins, I saw the same thing driving the elk into mud holes to coat themselves with mud to fend off the flies. The keepers told my parents that they could not remember a prior summer when the flies were so much a bother. They were spraying the areas with insecticides, and watering the wallows daily so that the Elk could deal with the flies themselves as best as possible.

As you might expect, most of the Zoo's visitors walked right by the exhibit, and didn't even bother to slow down to observe the Elk, nor ask why they were in wallows, covered in mud. To my way of thinking, it was one of the more interesting exhibits at the Zoo, because of the problem with the flies. Because of the size and nearness of Lake Michigan, that part of Illinois Rarely sees blow-flies at all. The cool air that comes in off the Lake at night, as the land cools, drives the bugs away.

My point was not that everyone should use field guides or zoos to learn about animals you intend to hunt. I wanted people to know there are great resources out there to teach you about hunting game, even if you don't live in the country, and don't have that opportunity to go out and scout the ground before the seasons open.

I consider myself very blessed to have been Tracking- cutting sign and reading sign and foot prints- for more than 55 years now. My skills as a tracker have allowed me to "cut corners" when scouting and hunting, and given me successes as a hunter that I otherwise would not have experienced. I have scouted deer hunting territory with good friends who have hunted that particular ground for more than 30 years, who were surprised at how much information I could give them about the deer in the area during our scouts, just by reading tracks and sign. :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[Bill Hall]

Please accept my apology Paul, just razzing you a bit. I do appreciate all the advice you've given here and all that I've gained from it. Bill

 

[paulvallandigham]

NO apology needed. I was concerned that others reading this might think you were serious. Trust me when I tell you I enjoy a good laugh- even at my expense-- better than most.

You just happened to brush up against a topic that has bothered me for years, both as a hunter, tracker, and teacher. This forum has enough members who are " the real deal" that it is a " comfort zone" for me, personally. My first reaction to the two quips was to laugh myself! Then I said, out loud, " Attaboy!" to both of you.

I still recall, like it happened yesterday, the opening day of Deer Season back in the early 1980s, when a young man shot a nice buck, then lost his way getting out of the woods, and wasn't sure how to find his way back in with us fellow hunters who offered to help him find his deer, and carry it out of the woods. We came across the dead buck on our way into where he "thought " his "tree" was located. I had him put his shotgun down, and then backtracked the deer for him, step by step. We came to a spot in an old logging road, where the deer turned right, and he walked right over a silver dollar sized splotch of blood with a bit of corn in it. I had to show him his own tracks, one after another, before he believed that he had walked there, in the dried leaves and forest clutter. He could not SEE a footprint that was the size of a housebrick! on that ground. I then continued to backtrack the deer to the place where it was struck by his 12 ga. slug, then found the fur on the off-side of the deer hanging up on some brush, and gave it to him as a souvenire, and then had him turn around to look at a dead-fall tree about 40 feet from where the deer was hit. All of a sudden, he "Recognized" his "Tree"! :shocked2: :idunno: :shake: :hmm: :thumbsup:

Needless-to-say, both the men with us, and this young man were in shock at how much information I showed them just reading the footprints of the deer in the leaf clutter. I don't think the trail went 60 feet from where we found the buck, to where he was shot, but this young hunter had managed to lose not only deer, but also his way out and back to his "tree". He was no city slicker, either. He grew up in a farm family, and lived in a rural farm area. This was His first Deer hunt with a Shotgun, but he had hunted with his father and older brothers all his life. :shocked2:

 

[longcruise]

Paul, Snowdragon is too good to you.

the July I spent in Colorado swatting flies that made life miserable for both man and beast.

Flies in July and elk in September, October and November. It's not a match.

Elk hang where they d@mn well please at any time they please. What pleases them is good forage. They are just not especially driven by flies.

Very dry year? Look high where precipitation at higher elevations generates more of the forage they like.

Wet year? All bets are off. They could be anywhere and they will be found dang near anywhere.

Tweener year? Pretty much the same as a wet year.

We are in a tweener year in the parts of CO that I hang out in. During July and August of thisnyear I have obeserved elk at altitudes of 4500' to 12,000'. Forty five hundred is the flats. Elk are where you find them!

South slopes? Not likely in july! In the fall? Just depends on the weather. Warm weather, north slopes with evergreen cover. Cold weather? Maybe south slopes, but what we consider cold does not phase an elk much.

Wallows and flies? Come September/October rut, the wallows are all about sex. :shocked2:

FWIW, I have observed elk in the low desert juniper country east of Walsenburg Colorado in July and August with temps running in the 95 to 105 degree range. They behave just like the elk that are hanging at 10,000 feet and more near timberline and above at the very same time.

I respect your knowledge and willingness to share it, but on this topic I think you have overstepped the limits of your actual experience.

 

[oletymepreacher]

Elk go high and sleep in the updrafts for a few very good reasons: They can see and smell threats from below. The DOW sent them a telegram telling them I have a tag and I'm coming. My legs and lungs aren't what they once were. Elk always think it is hot. They hide in really miserable places in the hope I won't shoot because the pack out would be so hard. They wallow so that they stink as bad as bigfoot so to keep me away. Deep snow doesn't drive them down. The elk that don't adhere to these principles can be found at lower elevations. They are where you find them. I don't know about bugs. At this stage in life, I would much rather take a first time elk hunter out in the woods than kill an elk myself.

Just a few observations from an old elk hunter who for a few years did some outfitting.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Iam very well aware of changes that occur with the different times of the year. My observations in Colorado were in July, in a year when the snow blocked the passes until after the 4th of July. We saw elk, and elk sign, from 5,000 feet, on up to the 12,000 foot pass we traveled west of Denver.

The rangers we talked to in the national parks indicated that the late snow delayed the movement of the Elk to higher grounds, and they were concerned that they may have a Late Fall, where the Elk don't come back down before Hunting season. This was back in the late '50s. Everything you note are facts I have known about Elk for some time. I don't think my knowledge of Elk is limited all that much, Thank you. We simply have acquired our respective base of knowledge in different ways.

Since I live down here on the flats, not in Colorado, I don't have the opportunity to do the kind or personal observation I prefer- and certainly would do if I were going to travel all the way to Colorado to hunt Elk. Pardon my short-comings. :surrender: :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Paul, Snowdragon is too good to you.

the July I spent in Colorado swatting flies that made life miserable for both man and beast.

Flies in July and elk in September, October and November. It's not a match.

Elk hang where they d@mn well please at any time they please. What pleases them is good forage. They are just not especially driven by flies.

Very dry year? Look high where precipitation at higher elevations generates more of the forage they like.

Wet year? All bets are off. They could be anywhere and they will be found dang near anywhere.

Tweener year? Pretty much the same as a wet year.

We are in a tweener year in the parts of CO that I hang out in. During July and August of thisnyear I have obeserved elk at altitudes of 4500' to 12,000'. Forty five hundred is the flats. Elk are where you find them!

South slopes? Not likely in july! In the fall? Just depends on the weather. Warm weather, north slopes with evergreen cover. Cold weather? Maybe south slopes, but what we consider cold does not phase an elk much.

Wallows and flies? Come September/October rut, the wallows are all about sex. :shocked2:

FWIW, I have observed elk in the low desert juniper country east of Walsenburg Colorado in July and August with temps running in the 95 to 105 degree range. They behave just like the elk that are hanging at 10,000 feet and more near timberline and above at the very same time.

I respect your knowledge and willingness to share it, but on this topic I think you have overstepped the limits of your actual experience.

Yup.

Elk are elk.

We've got them hanging around our place in the Southwest making general nuisances of themselves till about a week before hunting season. Then it's all bets off.

The biggest single factor I've seen in their movement before hunting season is guys "scouting." Jeezopete. :bull:

They show up three or four days before the season and camp right in the middle of elk country and raise all kinds of cobb at night, then rattle bang and roar through the hills during the day.

Heck, about 99% of the scouts give elk plenty of warning that it's time to vacate long before the opening bell.

How do I scout for elk? I go out AFTER an elk season and scout out all the trashy campsights and ATV trails. Then I know where not to go the next year.