tipi poles

[dave payne]

can eastern white cedar be used for tipi poles?

 

[Many Klatch]

That is an interesting question. I have sat in on a lot of arguments about TiPi's. I'll drop in the gist of the arguments. For my own purpose, I have a Wedge with a fly, I never wanted to have to deal with hauling the poles.

Most reenactors recognize that a TiPi was used by Plains Indians. They used Lodgepole pine to support their lodges. The TiPi was common West of the Mississippi and may have shown up East of the Mississippi up north in Wisconsin and possibly Western Illinois. I don't know of any other places where it might have shown up.

East of the Mississippi it appears that we had Wikiups, Wigewas and Long Houses. The poles were set in the ground in a circle or a tube and a covering was laid over. The Eastern tribes weren't as nomadic as the Plains Indians and had established towns near their fields.

All that being said. If you have a TiPi and you are where cedar grows and you can get it cheap, I don't know why anybody would bother you. I don't know if I have ever heard of any Dog Soldier checking to see what kind of wood a lodges poles were made of. Usually they are too busy keeping coolers out of sight and dealing with visible plastic.

Many Klatch

 

[Holley]

Any wood that is straight, very little to no sap, light wieght, and strong will do for a tipi. Not all tipis used Lodge Pole Pine...Balsum was also used. Today you can use Cypress from the swamps and pine. Just review the first sentence on that the latter.

I agree that tipis were more a Plains dwelling and the long house is more of an eastern house. But if you are useing a tipi...you use the best wood you can find. Some people even use bamboo..very light wieght and portable.
[url] www.tipis.org[/url]

 

[chipper]

I ripped 2/4"s long ways with my table saw and built a jig that turned then into octagon shaped poles. They were by far the nicest. I eventually swapped them out for lodgepole pine but I like the 2/4"s better.

 

[Norskie]

I've asked my Ojibway cousins about tipis and they just laugh. Their traditional shelter was the arch shaped wigwam, covered in bark. One of the old aunties said she'd seen tipis for the first time when visiting the Lakota out west in the 30's.
It's possible the tipi would have been found in Wisconsin when the Lakota were there during the fur trade area. The Objibway drove them out pretty early, though.
Moose

 

[Okwaho]

I plan on changing my lodge this year from an Ojibwa peaked lodge and going to a conical wigwam. I'd like to cover it with bark and woven mats but will have to settle for canvas. I use canvas with NO loops,ties,or grommets,just small stones and a special type knot for the corners.I know what many of you will say as to the authenticity of these conicals and sadly I just haven't been able to document them any earlier than 1611-1616,"The Jesuit Relations" Vol.III Ch.IV, Pierre Briard,PP.40-41
See also for the same cite:"The Indians of North America" Vol.I by Edna Kenton,P.33. This material in two volumes by Edna Kenton was an editing of Reuben Thwaites'74 volume work on the Jesuit relations
Tom Patton

 

[Claude Mathis]

It's possible the tipi would have been found in Wisconsin when the Lakota were there during the fur trade area.

Isn't the tipi a "plains" shelter (horses, wide open spaces), not a Lakotah shelter, per se? That is, I doubt that the Lakotah brought the tipi with them when they migrated up the Mississippi to the Great Lakes. Wouldn't they have acquired it after moving to the plains?

 

[Norskie]

It's my understanding that the Lakotah occupied land from the current Minnesota Dakota border area to the western half of northern Wisconsin. This area had a variety of habitats, from open prairie to boreal forest to northern hardwood forest. This variety made it a rich and desirable hunting/gathering ground.
The Lakotah are a Siouan people and would have had knowledge of the tipi in it's early form. :yakyak:
I do not know if they used them in northern Wisconsin. Sorry.
Moose

 

[crockett]

You said Eastern White Cedar- I don't know if that species matches the area of teepee usage. Was that your question?

Cedar is used for canoes so it must be strong and have some flex but cedar is also split for roof shingles, etc. If you use cedar I suppose care ought to be taken that the grain runs straight.

 

[dave payne]

actually I was more interested in was if the eastern white cedar is usable as a tipi pole (for my own use) am not worried about re-enacting anything, or worried about a tipi being east of the missippi...am wanting a tipi, and have a mountain in my backyard to use it in and get the cedar poles for it from....thanks to all who replied tho

 

[lockjaw]

...as crazy-cat used to say...many,many,many... moons ago...("enuf' with the moons")...used to live in a tipi...was also in the biz of making and selling poles...would look for a good stand of spruce, easy to peel and the knots were dealt with using a draw knife...cedar may be more difficult...but just get out and try the cedar if you like :v ...that's what people would do before there were internet message boards :winking:

 

[djnye]

cedar(eastern white) in small sizes tends to have more taper than either spruce or fir. mostly for my poles i use balsum fir. lots of pitch in the bark but once peeled it dries very light and comes in long lengths with a very moderate taper. nother thing about white cedar--ilike to leave it alone when i can. being a maker of bark canoes i am continually reminded how special that wood is and how slow it grows and how little of the big stuff we have left, i wish folks would use other woods for things like tipi poles, etc.

take care, daniel

 

[dave payne]

djnye....you are right...there is only one small stand of white cedars on the mountain...not finding much spruce either....maybe i can find enough red cedars to fit my requirements...lots of them !!

 

[Tater John]

Do you know how many poles a tipi is supposed to have?

 

[Okwaho]

I'm not sure there is any set number. It probably depends on which tribe you are concerned with.I would,however, recommend "The Indian Tipi" its history,construction,and use by Reginald and Gladys Laubin. This little book,still readily available on[url] http://www.abebooks.com[/url] and other such sources, is an oldie but a goodie.
Tom Patton

 

[Claude Mathis]

Do you know how many poles a tipi is supposed to have?

Generally speaking (others will give you their opinion)...

17 poles for your 16ft. - 20ft. tipi: 15 poles are used on the inside and two poles on the outside for the smoke flaps.

For the 12ft. and 14ft. tipi, 14 total poles will do while the 26 ft. tipi requires a total of 20 poles.

 

[nj1639]

can eastern white cedar be used for tipi poles?

Excellant for lodge poles. I harvested some that were dead, standing, from a swamp in South Jersey. They will outlast about any other poles.
Red cedar (Juniper Virginianus sp.) is good also, though it does taper quickly if grown in the open. Find some grown in a cedar thicket for longer, slender poles.