Tips for aiming and accuracy

[Boston123]

So, I have a 20 gauge smoothbore trade gun that I seemingly cant hit the target with. So far, I have been using an unpatched .600 roundball.

1) the shortest distance my range has is 50 yards, with no bench. Based on splashes on the berm, it looks like most of.my shots are low at 50 yards.

2) i have been using 90 grains of 2F powder. I have read that long-guns start with a powder charge equal to the caliber of the gun in grains, then gradually work up to a max of 2x the caliber in grains. So, I started at 60 grains 2F (which amusingly gave me the best shots on target, where I put two.balls through the wood of the target-frame), and I have worked up to 90 grains. The maker of the barrel for my gun, Colrain, suggested a charge between 80-100 grains. Mike Bellevue made a video where he used 110 grains and got good accuracy even out to 100 yards (3-out-of-5 shots on a man-sized target), but he has more years of experience than I have been alive.

3).my gun has no.rear sights, and the front sight is untouched.

I have been using where the barrel changes from octogon to round as my "rear sight", lining this location up with the base of the front sight, then splitting the target with the front sight post. I know that by filing down the front sight you can bring the point-of-aim.up, but I want to see if I can get more accuracy out of the gun without modifying something I would.find difficult.to replace (I dont have the skills or the tools to solder on a new front sight)

All.in all, I am.expecting 50 yards to be a rather-long distance for practical shooting in my case, since I live in New England and can rarely see more than 30-or-so yards in the woods. I am fairly confident in.my ability.to make sub-50 yard shots on target, I just cant.prove it out.since I cant shoot at anything less than 50 yards on my range

 

[deermanok]

Suggested loads and real world results aren't always the same. One gun might shoot great with 100 grains of powder but an exact copy of the same gun might be terrible with the same load.
If 60 grains is good for you, then stick with 60 grains.
You could try aiming a bit differently to see if that changes anything. Adding a rear sight maybe?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

1) the shortest distance my range has is 50 yards, with no bench. Based on splashes on the berm, it looks like most of.my shots are low at 50 yards.

3).my gun has no.rear sights, and the front sight is untouched.

I have been using where the barrel changes from octogon to round as my "rear sight", lining this location up with the base of the front sight, then splitting the target with the front sight post. I know that by filing down the front sight you can bring the point-of-aim.up, but I want to see if I can get more accuracy out of the gun without modifying something ...,

Well first, using the back of the barrel and the front sight actually points your barrel low. If you even removed the front sight, you'd still likely shoot low.
You need to elevate your eye above the plane of the rifle barrel to make it hit right. The bottom illustration (sorry it's crude) is your sight picture.

The second thing is you need to take a folding table to the range and use it as a bench at 50 yards, as you are also likely pulling down just a tad when you pull the trigger, and thus tossing the shot further down, because your lowest powder load hit the "best" you wrote..., I suspect compensation for recoil..., it's a normal human reaction to try to master the recoil, so with a 90 grain charge (50% more powder than 60 grains) you're pulling down a bit.

You will also likely want to try .610 ball. BUT before that, go to the hardware store, and by a brass corner brace. Cut it down and install a notch, then install it by using the tang screw to hold it in pace. Use it as your rear sight.

You may also want to try .610 ball

Good Luck ; have fun.

LD

 

[Osseon]

You will also likely want to try .610 ball. BUT before that, go to the hardware store, and by a brass corner brace. Cut it down and install a notch, then install it by using the tang screw to hold it in pace. Use it as your rear sight.

LD

Holy crap that is genius! I might try that on my blunderbuss.

 

[Brokennock]

Try some type of gas sealing wad between powder and ball to increase velocity. Most of the folks I see shooting just ball on powder are using huge powder charges (compared to those with a gas seal) to overcome the inefficiency.

It has been a while since I shot my gun with no rear sight, but, I seem to recall I was elevating the muzzle to see about the last 8" or so to the muzzle and placing the front sight on the bullseye.
I could be way off though. Someday I hope to find the info the original owner (Mike Shea) gave me when I bought the gun from him.

 

[Maven]

So, I have a 20 gauge smoothbore trade gun that I seemingly cant hit the target with. So far, I have been using an unpatched .600 roundball.

1) the shortest distance my range has is 50 yards, with no bench. Based on splashes on the berm, it looks like most of.my shots are low at 50 yards.

2) i have been using 90 grains of 2F powder. I have read that long-guns start with a powder charge equal to the caliber of the gun in grains, then gradually work up to a max of 2x the caliber in grains. So, I started at 60 grains 2F (which amusingly gave me the best shots on target, where I put two.balls through the wood of the target-frame), and I have worked up to 90 grains. The maker of the barrel for my gun, Colrain, suggested a charge between 80-100 grains. Mike Bellevue made a video where he used 110 grains and got good accuracy even out to 100 yards (3-out-of-5 shots on a man-sized target), but he has more years of experience than I have been alive.

3).my gun has no.rear sights, and the front sight is untouched.

I have been using where the barrel changes from octogon to round as my "rear sight", lining this location up with the base of the front sight, then splitting the target with the front sight post. I know that by filing down the front sight you can bring the point-of-aim.up, but I want to see if I can get more accuracy out of the gun without modifying something I would.find difficult.to replace (I dont have the skills or the tools to solder on a new front sight)

All.in all, I am.expecting 50 yards to be a rather-long distance for practical shooting in my case, since I live in New England and can rarely see more than 30-or-so yards in the woods. I am fairly confident in.my ability.to make sub-50 yard shots on target, I just cant.prove it out.since I cant shoot at anything less than 50 yards on my range

Take a look at some of these results, Boston123, especially post #35: April Smoothbore shoot: Prize announced

 

[Boston123]

Well first, using the back of the barrel and the front sight actually points your barrel low. If you even removed the front sight, you'd still likely shoot low.
You need to elevate your eye above the plane of the rifle barrel to make it hit right. The bottom illustration (sorry it's crude) is your sight picture.

View attachment 75150
The second thing is you need to take a folding table to the range and use it as a bench at 50 yards, as you are also likely pulling down just a tad when you pull the trigger, and thus tossing the shot further down, because your lowest powder load hit the "best" you wrote..., I suspect compensation for recoil..., it's a normal human reaction to try to master the recoil, so with a 90 grain charge (50% more powder than 60 grains) you're pulling down a bit.

You will also likely want to try .610 ball. BUT before that, go to the hardware store, and by a brass corner brace. Cut it down and install a notch, then install it by using the tang screw to hold it in pace. Use it as your rear sight.

View attachment 75151

You may also want to try .610 ball

Good Luck ; have fun.

LD

1) The main reason I am using .600 ball over .610 ball is because Track of the Wolf carries a .600 bag mold, and I prefer to be able to make the bullets myself if I have to. I certainly can try .610 ball, though,Track carries it.

2) I stopped by Home Depot today to pick up some gardening stuff, and bought some brass corner-braces as well to try that out. Unfortunately, the builder of my gun tapped the tang screw so it will only fit in the screwhole of the tang when the screw is "upside down". Essentially, the screwhead is set flush to the trigger-guard, not the tang, and I can't reverse the screw because it won't fit through the hole in the tang.

Im going to try just straight-up lashing this rear-sight to one of the flats of the barrel, see how that works

 

[Sun City]

If I wanted a 'smoothie'....I'd just get a single barrel shotgun!!

 

[tenngun]

If I wanted a 'smoothie'....I'd just get a single barrel shotgun!!

That’s what you got, so the fun of these gun is getting the best from them. They will never be a rifle, just as a ml will never be a breech loader.
I added a rear sight to all my smoothies, but NMLRA smoothie shoots show some scores that would be fair with a rifle

 

[Loyalist Dave]

2) I stopped by Home Depot today to pick up some gardening stuff, and bought some brass corner-braces as well to try that out. Unfortunately, the builder of my gun tapped the tang screw so it will only fit in the screwhole of the tang when the screw is "upside down". Essentially, the screwhead is set flush to the trigger-guard, not the tang, and I can't reverse the screw because it won't fit through the hole in the tang.

Ah well you have a "properly" made copy of a tradegun.

There are answers to this.
First, tradeguns did have rear sights in many variations. You can have a rear sight installed if it's an octagon to round barrel.

Another method would be to have the tang drilled and tapped, and you use a shoulderless thumb screw to make a peep sight.

LD

 

[dave951]

Here's a 25yd group shot offhand from my 69cal Macon smoothbore. Bore measures .690, ball casts at .685. Load is 65g 3f Old Eynsford, bare ball dipped in musket lube, RWS caps.

The keys to getting a smoothbore to shoot well are- windage to barrel, is the barrel straight, charge level, ball alloy, consistency in mounting the gun, trigger pull.

I can't stress technique enough. It's sorta like golf, all elements of your swing can affect how the ball flies. In N-SSA competition, I've found that my best scores shooting smoothbore are when I don't wear my uniform shell jacket and just shoot in shirt sleeves. The little bit of change in how the gun is held when wearing a coat v not is quite marked.

A bit of history here, the Macon is a Confederate version of the 1842 Springfield smoothbore musket. When battle damaged captured 1842s were sent to Confederate arsenals for repair and reissue, they often just cut the damaged part of the barrel off, shortened the stock and rammer and reissued the gun. The Macon arsenal was well known for cutting 1842s to this length.

 

[Booneliane]

Make sure your anchor point (or cheek weld) is ultra consistent on the gun.

 

[Flintandsteel]

How about using a patch? Not sure why everyone seems to want to shoot bare ball in a smoothbore. Even military smootbores usually used a paper patch.

 

[smo]

Some guns just seem too shoot better without a patch it seems....So why use a patch if your gun shoots better without a patch?

 

[Boston123]

Ah well you have a "properly" made copy of a tradegun.

There are answers to this.
First, tradeguns did have rear sights in many variations. You can have a rear sight installed if it's an octagon to round barrel.

Another method would be to have the tang drilled and tapped, and you use a shoulderless thumb screw to make a peep sight.
View attachment 75736
LD

I removed the tang-screw to look at it, and amusingly enough it looks like the only part of the tang-screw-trigger guard interface that is threaded is the hole through the tang (and the screw itself). The hole in the trigger-guard is *not* threaded, only the hole through the tang.

Therefore, the tang-screw is only securing the tang to the stock if it comes up through the trigger-guard, through the stock and finally through the hole in the tang. The head of the screw fits to the trigger-guard, but the only thing actually holding the screw in place is the threaded hole in the tang.

Im going to try and come up with a "cradle" of leather strapping for the brass corner-piece rear sight I made, to fit at the wedding band between the octagon and round section of barrel. That placement gives fairly-comfortable eye-relief between the rear sight, down the barrel and the front sight post

 

[Boston123]

How about using a patch? Not sure why everyone seems to want to shoot bare ball in a smoothbore. Even military smootbores usually used a paper patch.

From what I have read in several books on Colonial New England, from King Phillips War all through the 1700s, New England militiamen were pretty good with using their smoothbore guns without patches.

If they could do it, I would like to try and do it.

 

[Yewbender]

Boston123, i do the same in shooting my .62 Fowler and if i do my part can ring steel gongs out to 60ish yards. It took me some time to figure it out and thats how i ended up for aiming and it works well for me. I mostly shoot at steel with the .62 so never shot a lot of paper. My load is 70grains 2F goex, 1/2 lubed fiber wad and .600 rb with litely lubed .015 pillow ticking. The wad is a great gas seal and the .600 rb with ticking is easy loading and stays put when seated. I will also shoot without the wad but the barrel fouls up more. The other nice thing with patching your ball is no leading of the barrel to worry about. As stated above...keeping face in same place on stock with help with consistency.

There is many ways to shoot them smoothies so you just need to find what works the best for you.

 

[Boston123]

Try some type of gas sealing wad between powder and ball to increase velocity. Most of the folks I see shooting just ball on powder are using huge powder charges (compared to those with a gas seal) to overcome the inefficiency.

It has been a while since I shot my gun with no rear sight, but, I seem to recall I was elevating the muzzle to see about the last 8" or so to the muzzle and placing the front sight on the bullseye.
I could be way off though. Someday I hope to find the info the original owner (Mike Shea) gave me when I bought the gun from him.

Question: Will lubing the hell out of a wad of hemp serve as a "gas seal"?

I have some fatwax I mixed up, 50/50 beeswax and vegetable oil, the stuff is like room-temperature butter (solid but malleable). I was thinking I can smear it into the fibers of the hemp wad and that will seal up the gases.

Or will the fatwax just smush into the powder charge and prevent it from going off?

 

[Brokennock]

Question: Will lubing the hell out of a wad of hemp serve as a "gas seal"?

I have some fatwax I mixed up, 50/50 beeswax and vegetable oil, the stuff is like room-temperature butter (solid but malleable). I was thinking I can smear it into the fibers of the hemp wad and that will seal up the gases.

Or will the fatwax just smush into the powder charge and prevent it from going off?

It might help the seal. It should reduce fouling by helping to keep it soft.
Try a 1"x2" rectangle of brown paper, "rubbed soft," folded into a 1" square seated on top of your powder.

 

[Flintandsteel]

While some smoothies seem to shoot better with a bare ball, it seems the OP, does not have that issue.
He is saying he can’t get on paper at 50 yds.
Put a patch on it, and see what happens.