I have watched just about every video on youtube regarding flintlock muzzleloaders. One thing I noticed is that some people can get the flnters to fire instantaneously while other have a noticeable delay. What are some things you can do to insure instant ignition? I will most certainly be using real black powder but will be priming with the main load powder 2F.
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Tips to insure quick ignition
- Thread starter BobinIL
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Pete G
76 Cal.
Main things are a well tuned lock and a good vent liner. Chambers White Lightening liner is way better than any liner with a screw driver slot.
I find that pricking the vent before priming helps. I poke hard enough to feel the powder in the main charge go "crunch".
I am no expert, but I get very few misfires if I do this, and ignition seems faster, almost instantaneous at times.
I use 4F to prime because the shop owner told me I should when I started, and I haven't used it all up yet. However, I tried using 2F as an experiment and didn't notice any difference - but this was a very small test sample, only the one shot.
Jamie
I am no expert, but I get very few misfires if I do this, and ignition seems faster, almost instantaneous at times.
I use 4F to prime because the shop owner told me I should when I started, and I haven't used it all up yet. However, I tried using 2F as an experiment and didn't notice any difference - but this was a very small test sample, only the one shot.
Jamie
New at this game, but I found that 4F powder is quicker than 3F, and about 3 grains on the right side of the pan is a bit quicker. I've read that any fire burns away from its fuel, which makes sense. For me, both of these are fairly evident. I'm still learning, though.
MountainRanger
40 Cal.
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Use a vent pick, especially after a few shots
Do an occasional brushing with pan brush or wipe of the pan with a rag
Keep a sharp flint- either knap when it becomes dull (and that the only time I get a misfire) or put a new one in when itgets too stubby to knap
While I use 4F to prime, I don't have a dog in the old 'the best priming grade is' fight. Use what works and to U-know-where with strict rule setters. Don't be afraid to experiment so long as you stay safe to others and yourself
And finally, keep a clean rifle or gun
Do an occasional brushing with pan brush or wipe of the pan with a rag
Keep a sharp flint- either knap when it becomes dull (and that the only time I get a misfire) or put a new one in when itgets too stubby to knap
While I use 4F to prime, I don't have a dog in the old 'the best priming grade is' fight. Use what works and to U-know-where with strict rule setters. Don't be afraid to experiment so long as you stay safe to others and yourself
And finally, keep a clean rifle or gun
Guest
Correct. If unrestricted, it burns in all directions. :wink:Gene L said:
Coincidentally, I just finished testing a 20ga. Green River Forge trade gun which was prone to hang fires. I'm pretty sure I've solved its problem, but here's what I did/do to get it to fire almost instantaneously:
1) Removed old vent liner, ground breech face where it intruded near the vent, Used a Jim Chambers, White Lightnin' liner.
2) Enlarge touch hole to 1/16"
3) Prime with FFFFg, no more than half a pan full, banked against the touch hole*
4) Use a vent pick frequently and wipe both the pan and flint edge after every shot, especially in humid conditions
5) Use a sharp flint and make sure it's tightened in the cock
6) Damp swab the chamber every so often to remove powder fouling. Some guns don't need this, but my trade gun seems to.
Having written the above, I must add that my Chambers' Isaac Haines FL doesn't require nearly as much attention as the trade gun to get it to fire reliably and quickly.
*Larry Pletcher (Pletch) has tested the powder away from the touch hole v. powder banked against it. You may want to look at his findings.
1) Removed old vent liner, ground breech face where it intruded near the vent, Used a Jim Chambers, White Lightnin' liner.
2) Enlarge touch hole to 1/16"
3) Prime with FFFFg, no more than half a pan full, banked against the touch hole*
4) Use a vent pick frequently and wipe both the pan and flint edge after every shot, especially in humid conditions
5) Use a sharp flint and make sure it's tightened in the cock
6) Damp swab the chamber every so often to remove powder fouling. Some guns don't need this, but my trade gun seems to.
Having written the above, I must add that my Chambers' Isaac Haines FL doesn't require nearly as much attention as the trade gun to get it to fire reliably and quickly.
*Larry Pletcher (Pletch) has tested the powder away from the touch hole v. powder banked against it. You may want to look at his findings.
Larry Akers
40 Cal.
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Gene L said:
The "Bevel Brothers", in an article for Muzzle Blasts, using high-speed cameras and computers for control proved this to be false. Ignition was faster and surer (as in more fire into the touchhole) when the priming was banked against the touchhole.
hanshi
Cannon
I use 4F to prime because I have a lot of it. If I had to go to 3F I wouldn't complain about it. My .45 Lancaster is ultra reliable and truly fast. A couple of mine are somewhat prone to occasional hesitation that is barely noticeable but there none the less. True hang fires are pretty rare since I drill a 1/16" vent, use a small amount of primer and pick the vent if it does hiccup.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Buy a well made flinter with a good quality lock and vent liner, I prefer Silers, White Lightnings and position them in the sunrise position, or just over the top of the pan....Positioned here, it is behind the heel of the frizzen when closed and can't be plugged with powder...A low vent liner causes slow ignition...
Many Klatch
69 Cal.
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First don't buy a flintlock with a patent breech. Next, drill the touch hole out to 1/16". Third, Don't swab between shots, that just packs junk next to the touch hole
Minimal lube. Never wax or oil the frizzen face, wipe the flint and frizzed occasionally with a dry cloth (piece of patch material). Keep it all dry. Make sure the flint is pointing into the pan when fully lowered. Make sure the flint contacts the frizzen as high as possible (shim it out with a twig or matchstick in the jaws if necessary). The edge should be about 1/8" from the frizzen at half-cock. Keep it sharp with a flint nibbler or flaking tool.
If you watched my video you saw two instantaneous ignitions in a row with no wiping between. ;-)
If you watched my video you saw two instantaneous ignitions in a row with no wiping between. ;-)
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One of the things I've been experimenting with is making vent picks out of soft black wire with a full radius nose and a snug pass through fit and loading the gun with it in place against the far wall of the barrel.
The powder is packed by the seating of the ball and then the wire pick is removed leaving a void for the flash to penetrate to the middle of the charge.
The thinking is that there is more area to ignite with in the charge thus insuring a more consistent ignition.
This would need to be checked with Pletche's camera set up to tell for sure if it is any advantage but it does seem to help from what the senses can tell.
I feel that a uniform ignition speed is more important than a super fast one that is not so consistent. If fast and consistent than we have the best of both worlds.
The powder is packed by the seating of the ball and then the wire pick is removed leaving a void for the flash to penetrate to the middle of the charge.
The thinking is that there is more area to ignite with in the charge thus insuring a more consistent ignition.
This would need to be checked with Pletche's camera set up to tell for sure if it is any advantage but it does seem to help from what the senses can tell.
I feel that a uniform ignition speed is more important than a super fast one that is not so consistent. If fast and consistent than we have the best of both worlds.
Curt said:
You know your frizzen spring is supposed to stop the frizzen from bouncing back and colliding with your flint. It doesn't have to be a very strong spring to do that.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
Maven said:
Pletch has a number of high speed studies that he's done on locks including filling the pan full, filling it half full, banking it away from the touch hole, and banking it against a touch hole.
It's very methodical and very well done, however it never ignites any of the powder by showering sparks on top. For consistency sake he uses a heated rod to ignite the powder. I think it was a mistake to do so. I understand his attempt to minimize variables in the tests, but he ended up using a method that nobody uses in the field and came up with some results that really surprised me because they were so counter to my personal experience.
Personally I have two .50 caliber longrifles. One is a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle that has a very small lock. The other is an Early Lancaster gun that was built by tg when he was a member of the forum. The build by tg was/is excellent and he used an L&R Queen Anne lock which was perfect for the time period. The Queen Anne is a much larger lock with a much larger pan. I use 3Fg powder as both the prime and the main charge in both. If you don't already have 4F powder, there's really no need to go buy any because 2F and 3F work fine. You can if you like but although the speed difference between them can be scientifically measured (Pletch has some info on this too), it is so small as to be indiscernible to the human eye. Still there's lots of folks who like to use it, so suit yourself.
My two rifles have vastly different preferences in priming:
The Traditions works best when the pan is no more than half full and banked AWAY from the touch hole. If you bank it over the touch hole you will get that fuse effect every time. If you bank it away from the touch hole (close the pan and give your wrist a quick flip to the outside of the rifle) it is almost instantaneous. It is at least as instantaneous as I can detect.
The Early Lancaster with the Queen Anne lock is not real picky about the prime. It fires fastest with half a pan full but it doesn't seem to matter if it is banked away from the touch hole, towards it, or if it is filled all the way up with powder. It will still go off quite nicely. I believe it fires best with half a pan and I try to put that amount in it. I do participate in reenactments and sometimes when it is more important to get a lot of shots, I can pour more powder in the pan than I intend to. This lock just eats it up and keeps on going.
I firmly believe that the reason my experience is opposite of Pletch's is because my ignition is being caused by sparks cascading from my flint onto the top of the powder (that's all that is exposed to the sparks) and not by pushing a red-hot rod to the bottom of the pan. So, I'm saying, try some of these out. You don't have to live fire round balls to work on pan/load ignitions. Just roll some blanks cartridges shoot some blanks. You'll be able to figure out fairly quickly what your gun likes.
Here's a test you can run that will show you just how little powder is needed to fire your rifle. Lick your finger and wipe the bottom and edge of your pan with it. Put in enough powder to cover the dampened area. Now turn the pan upside down and dump out all the powder leaving just the amount that clings to the dampened area you rubbed your wet finger on. Now close the frizzen and fire your rifle. You will be surprised to see just how little powder it takes to do the trick. I did that four separate times with my Traditions rifle when I first got it and every time it fired instantaneously without a single flash in the pan. And yes, I have been accused of being a "thrifty Scot!"
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
