To clean or not clean??

[Erwan]

Did not clean it today. Wiped the bore with a light coat of BB 1000, & left it. Your thoughts??

Clean the bore any time you can after shooting, oil it, and before shooting, degrease with some solvent like methylated spirit or something else.
About the problem, I think that your barrel isn't really clean or not clean enough...
Always clean your barrel after shooting, it'll thank you later...

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

My military training kicks in and I can't not clean my weapon. Some habits are hard to break!!

 

[Billy Boy]

Shooting my Lyman GP 54 cal with 80grs FF Triple 7 . Lee REAL 300gr. Great accuracy!! Go home clean the bore thoroughly . Go out & shoot again, first shot way low & left. Second shot , up closer to center. Next shots shoot clover leafs, dead center. Great.. Then clean, & it starts all over again. I'm using Bore Butter 1000 + as a lube. It states not to clean after shooting, except if the rifle will be sitting for an extended amount of time. The bore is now seasoned. They say just wipe the bore down with a patch , with some BB on it. . I was at the range this morning. Same story. Rifle shooting great now after a couple of shots. So, my elk hunt starts this Saturday, the 9th. Did not clean it today. Wiped the bore with a light coat of BB 1000, & left it. Your thoughts??

Bore butter isn’t some magical elixir that gives us a pass on cleaning. Scrub that thing up when you’re done, no mater how it will sit around..

 

[user 34300]

Get some real black powder. Call the supplier, take you pick, order it. Especially for hunting you want it to go bang first shot. I would never hunt with fake powder.

For this year, I'd clean the bore and patent breech with carb cleaner and pop several caps before loading a sacrificial shot. Fire a shot into the ground to foul the barrel and prove it will fire. Then load again and hunt.

Yes, bore butter is junk. Seasoning the bore is myth. Always clean your gun as the end of the day. SPG is better for BP conicals. Balls work as well IMHO. No reason to alloy bullets for a ML.

 

[Surrywoodman]

I have a similar issue with my Hawken, first shot low with a bone clean barrel, then subsequent shots group nice. When I am shooting I run an alcohol patch and two dry patches between shots, works great for range shooting. Hunting always starts with a clean, dry barrel and it is unpredictable. So my next move is to do the Gunny Hathcock thing, which is to shoot a shot from a clean, cold (ambient temp) bore, totally clean and do it again and again to see where the print is and make adjustments, always shooting the first shot over and over so to speak. It works with other types of firearms, so why not with my muzzleloader? Of course that is a thing I will do after deer season, we are into unmentionable season now.

 

[azmntman]

Get some real black powder. Call the supplier, take you pick, order it. Especially for hunting you want it to go bang first shot. I would never hunt with fake powder.

For this year, I'd clean the bore and patent breech with carb cleaner and pop several caps before loading a sacrificial shot. Fire a shot into the ground to foul the barrel and prove it will fire. Then load again and hunt.

Yes, bore butter is junk. Seasoning the bore is myth. Always clean your gun as the end of the day. SPG is better for BP conicals. Balls work as well IMHO. No reason to alloy bullets for a ML.

exactly

 

[Hesp]

Out to the range today with my Lee REAL bullet cast from pure lead. An absolute disaster!!! First shot , way low & left. Second shot, high
right by a good 12", completely off the target. Third missed the complete target & target stand. Went back to my regular hard Lee REAL bullet, "dead center" from the fouled bore. Final shot at 75 yds with my regular hard bullet, dead center , 3" low. Sticking with my original load & bullet. No more time left to fool around. I live way out . No local sporting goods stores here. I'm on my own. Will see how it goes. Working from a squeaky clean bore, only produced shotgun groups. I know how to clean a bore, & mine was absolutely clean. Thanks for all the great suggestions. You guys are great.

 

[Brokenbear]

Out to the range today with my Lee REAL bullet cast from pure lead. An absolute disaster!!! First shot , way low & left. Second shot, high
right by a good 12", completely off the target. Third missed the complete target & target stand. Went back to my regular hard Lee REAL bullet, "dead center" from the fouled bore. Final shot at 75 yds with my regular hard bullet, dead center , 3" low. Sticking with my original load & bullet. No more time left to fool around. I live way out . No local sporting goods stores here. I'm on my own. Will see how it goes. Working from a squeaky clean bore, only produced shotgun groups. I know how to clean a bore, & mine was absolutely clean. Thanks for all the great suggestions. You guys are great.

Stay with the triple seven for the hunt (and thereafter too!)
Keep the rifle upside down and run a caliber correct bore brush through the bore dry just to get the big stuff out
..pull the nipple and clean it with alcohol and let it dry ..clean your flash channel with a pipe cleaner the kind with the short steel bristles made into it .. again using alcohol ..clean the back end of your chamber with the caliber specific chamber scraper then with a dry pipe cleaner again if needed clear the flash channel
Reinstall the dry nipple
Take a half dozen of the bullets it likes and wipe off the BB .. melt 50/50 bees wax and olive oil (in emergency like no time left sub any hard wax like canning wax or candle) and set the just cleaned bullets into the melt deep enough to coat up to where the nose starts to form
Once cool roll up a piece of cardboard like from a paper milk carton and cookie cutter out your bullets leaving surplus hardened wax encapsulating the bullet
If you had time I would suggest the already suggested fiber wads but since you do not know how how it will shoot with a wad go with what you have confidence in and that is bullet n powder as I understand your earlier explanation
Suck don't blow on the muzzle to insure clear ignition path
Get you rifle acclimated to conditions it will be hunted with
Pull the nipple and drop a few grains of T7 under the nipple then reinstall the nipple
Load it ..The wax and olive oil will coat the bore and do some protection
Condom over the bore and once afield of course cap her up and shoot a big'un !

Confidence is everything and you have proven the gun shoots dirty at less than a minuet of an elk boiler room so do not even think about will the bullet hit but which tuft of hair you expect to see riffle from the bullet's passage ..that is absolutely your last thought as the trigger breaks

Good shooting old son and be safe!

Bear

 

[SDSmlf]

Take a half dozen of the bullets it likes and wipe off the BB .. melt 50/50 bees wax and olive oil (in emergency like no time left sub any hard wax like canning wax or candle) and set the just cleaned bullets into the melt deep enough to coat up to where the nose starts to form

Can not imagine why someone would suggest changing lube 36 or so hours before the season opens and the OP has no real way to confirm it will improve things rather than make them worse other than a ‘trust me’ from someone who has never seen or shot the OP’s gun.

@Hesp, go with whatever load combination gives you the most confidence. It is not the time to be blindly changing things. Good luck on your upcoming hunt.

 

[ETipp]

Be aware of this: I’ve been shooting muzzleloaders for 50+ years with no problems. This year for the first time I used bore butter that I got from my brother in law. After a few afternoons at the range, made a final cleaning and lastly a patch with a bit of bore butter on it, before leaving for deer camp. My son and I prepped our guns the same way and we were each shooting .50 cal. plains type rifles. At the end of the second day of hunting we decided to fire the guns- only the caps snapped on both guns, neither main charge fired. (We had snapped caps before loading). Upon inspection, we found there was no powder in either percussion drum. We poured in some powder through the nipple hole, installed the nipples back in, put on fresh caps and both guns fired perfectly.

Apparently, the bore butter had prevented the powder from flowing into the drum. So, after loading your hunting load, I suggest removing the nipple and checking if you have powder in the drum.

What actually happened was you allowed the BB to accumulate in either in the breech plug area or the flash channel.

As previously stated, I no longer use BB. However, I never had an issue with it all the years I used it. Ascertaining the entire passageway is unobstructed is key. Some people will swear that a shooter will go to hell if they blow down the bore of a ML. Whatever they want to think is on them. I seldom use that procedure but it is, in fact, a way to ascertain their is no obstruction.

There is a better and fail safe way one can include into their cleaning process, and its easy and effective. I always remove the nipple first and drop it down into Windex in a water bottle cap, clean the bore, then put some lacquer thinner into a small syringe. Push the lacquer thinner down through the flash channel, let it sit for a minute, then blow it out with compressed air from an air compressor. Always point the muzzle down close to the floor while doing so and its very easy to know if the air is coming out the end. Last thing is to run one more dry cleaning patch down the bore, then reinstall the nipple. Snap a couple caps prior to loading.

If the ML is to sit for a while, snapping a cap is not needed. Simply put whatever oil/lube you choose to use on a patch and run it down the bore for rust protection. I prefer Ballistol. I also put some Ballistol down the flash channel before installing the nipple.

When its time to go to the range, or hunt again, simply remove the nipple, clean it with whatever one likes, run a couple of dry cleaning patches down the bore, then do the lacquer thinner and compressed air again, and install the nipple. Its not needed but I still snap a cap prior to loading.

The procedure above works. There is little to no chance any accumulation of oil or any other gunk will form anywhere within the ML. You will maintain a clear and unobstructed passage from the nipple all the way out the end of the muzzle.

 

[Erwan]

For this year, I'd clean the bore and patent breech with carb cleaner and pop several caps before loading a sacrificial shot. Fire a shot into the ground to foul the barrel and prove it will fire. Then load again and hunt.

That could be good to do like you say...
I'll tell you how I do, this is maybe not the best way overall, but that is what I'm doing: after cleaning and with the patch used, I put a powder charge, the patch over this and I shoot the first time without a bullet, only with the patch. In that way, the barrel is clean but with a deposit of powder that'll be cleaned with the patch of the real first load.
This way I know that my barrel is ready to shoot well at the first shot. We call it "barrel powder burning" and it works well with French or Swiss powder...

 

[Brokenbear]

Can not imagine why someone would suggest changing lube 36 or so hours before the season opens and the OP has no real way to confirm it will improve things rather than make them worse other than a ‘trust me’ from someone who has never seen or shot the OP’s gun.

@Hesp, go with whatever load combination gives you the most confidence. It is not the time to be blindly changing things. Good luck on your upcoming hunt.

Oh that’s an easy answer sir.. the gentleman has a much bigger confidence/function problem with not going bang than he does anything else

The probability of BB being the no bang issue is high

Until further testing we do not know why his rifle will only shoot well fouled

The departure from BB to the 50/50 lube will quite possibly change the POI some what however I have never seen that to be more devastating on a high country elk hunt than to pull the trigger on a no fire

Merry Christmas everyone and travel safe

Bear

 

[Rebel bull]

Shooting my Lyman GP 54 cal with 80grs FF Triple 7 . Lee REAL 300gr. Great accuracy!! Go home clean the bore thoroughly . Go out & shoot again, first shot way low & left. Second shot , up closer to center. Next shots shoot clover leafs, dead center. Great.. Then clean, & it starts all over again. I'm using Bore Butter 1000 + as a lube. It states not to clean after shooting, except if the rifle will be sitting for an extended amount of time. The bore is now seasoned. They say just wipe the bore down with a patch , with some BB on it. . I was at the range this morning. Same story. Rifle shooting great now after a couple of shots. So, my elk hunt starts this Saturday, the 9th. Did not clean it today. Wiped the bore with a light coat of BB 1000, & left it. Your thoughts??

your good to go just snap a couple of caps before you load. I'm now into my 12th day of the muzzleloader season shot 2 big fat does ( 150 lb+ dressed ) haven't cleaned between shots 2 days and haven't fired for 10 days and I know it will fire and be dead on target out to 150 yds no question

 

[Mike in FL]

your good to go just snap a couple of caps before you load. I'm now into my 12th day of the muzzleloader season shot 2 big fat does ( 150 lb+ dressed ) haven't cleaned between shots 2 days and haven't fired for 10 days and I know it will fire and be dead on target out to 150 yds no question

Your bore has surface rust after 10 days of no cleaning.

 

[Rebel bull]

Your bore has surface rust after 10 days of no cleaning.

Wanna bet come look for your self

 

[Mike in FL]

Wanna bet come look for your self

You will see the damage you've done when you finally clean it. Maybe you can get it out with a copper brush.

 

[bpd303]

if they were cast from pure lead only, would that make a difference?

Yes it will make a difference, to the better. I should add you will need to work up a new load for it.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

. I'm using Bore Butter 1000 + as a lube.

I used to, but about 10-15 years ago I started using Number 13 cleaner instead.
it self cleans the last shoot.

Also easier to use when its cold out.

 

[Mike in FL]

Is bore butter and wonderlube 1000 the same thing?

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

That could be good to do like you say...
I'll tell you how I do, this is maybe not the best way overall, but that is what I'm doing: after cleaning and with the patch used, I put a powder charge, the patch over this and I shoot the first time without a bullet, only with the patch. In that way, the barrel is clean but with a deposit of powder that'll be cleaned with the patch of the real first load.
This way I know that my barrel is ready to shoot well at the first shot. We call it "barrel powder burning" and it works well with French or Swiss powder...

great idea. never thought of that