to ladel or not?

[mckutzy]

i hope this is the right forum..

I was wondering whet people think about the bottom pouring production melters as opposed to just using a ladle and pour by hand. Now im experienced in running ball by hand pour, i have never used one but my shooting buddy was thinking about getting a production melter for me and wondered what are the pros/cons and some opinions.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have used both, and much prefer the bottom pour casting pots. The secret to using both and get good balls is to have the mold heated, and in the case of a dipper, to keep it HOT, too!, and then put the mold as close to the pot as possible, so that you limit the cooling time that affects the dipper and the lead in it while moving from the pot of lead to the mold. With the bottom pour pots, you need to get that mold as close to the spout as possible so that the lead does not cool too much before it gets to the mold.

Cool lead results in wrinkled lead balls and bullets, rounded grease grooves, instead of full, sharp-cornered grooves, and sometimes, rounded bases in base pour molds.

I did very good work with a dipper when I used one, but I didn't like the lack of control due to needing a longer handle to keep my hand away from the heat of the pot to hold both the mold and the ladle.

With the bottom pour mold, I used a steel block- made from scrape, to rest the mold on high enough to have the sprue cutter about 1/4" below the spout. It was a simple matter to slide the mold on that block of steel under the pot, line it up with the spout, and then open the spout with the arm from the pot. For me, the bottom pour pot was a much easier and faster way to make balls and bullets.

Wear gloves with both pots, to protect your hands from heat, and from any splashes or pops of lead from the pot. You only need to have ONE small drop of molten lead land on your hand or wrist to learn why this is the most important safety rule to abide, after wearing eye protection. Please don't ask me how I know this!

 

[mckutzy]

when i first got to know how casting worked i did a fare amount at school albeit with aluminum, with lead all i was first making was buttons. luckly it was musket balls .75cal so is was a bit easier but freezing was a problem till i learned about heat issues. so after many thousands (not to toot my own horn :wink i got the hang of it.

im am blessed to have had some real safety conscious teachers back in the day, so that defiatly rubbed off on me, and sometimes a bit too much, but its necessary, so hot handling and safety gear, im down with that. i havent seen the result of moisture and contaminate explosion thankfully, but i remember the marks on the ceiling an floor in the forge area. :shocked2:
so im well aware of casting dangers.
ill make up a riser block if i do get that bottom pour pot.
thank you

 

[bebloomster]

For me a bottom pouring pot is the only way to go as I cast upwards of 2000 round ball a month. I also love 4 cavity molds.

 

[jtmattison]

I love my Lee Production Pot IV. I cast cast twice as fast as with a ladle.

HD

 

[Ridge]

I like the ladle...but I rarely cast more than a handful at a time.

 

[Idaho Ron]

The biggest problem I have and others have had is the spout cloging up or dripping. The dripping can be helped by cleaning, but when they plug up it will also cause problems. The lead will flow slowly and it won't fill the mould well. I have seen this happen the most with conicals. It will cause them to be lighter and not as filled out.
I started to ladle my conicals and I am much more happy with the bullets. Ron

 

[paulvallandigham]

Ron: Have you tried to polish the spout on your pot? I found this helped immensely to get the pot to stop dripping. It also seems to prevent the spout from plugging up. I polish both the inside of the spout, and the plug itself. A few minutes with very fine emery cloth. If you have a 1/4" diameter dowel that you can cut a groove in, put the emery cloth in the groove and let the powder handdrill do the polishing of the spout.

Is your heating element working properly? A friend has had to send his " guts" back to SAECO over the years to be cleaned, and recalibrated, or have parts replace. He does high volume casting, however, and most of us will never wear out a casting pot as he does.

 

[texcl]

my bottom pour pot clogged all the time so I went back to doing it the old fashion way, but I only cast 100 bullets/balls at one time so it's not a big deal.

 

[mckutzy]

ya im not going to be doing alot of casting, of all the ball i made, most i didnt shoot.. they were for some friends of mine.
as for the money for the small pot and tools or the bottom pour... im in the middle on things but maybe leaning to the old old way of doing by hand, well see when the money has to change hands.

 

[bob308]

when i started casting it was with a pot on an eggstove. then i got a layman pot with bottom pour. after 35 years of casting with the bottom pour i will never go back.

 

[samerch]

mckutzy
Bottom pour pots do a good job, but ladel pouring will produce top quality bullets or balls in 99% of the moulds used. With a ladel your balls will be more uniform in weight than in a bottom pour. The ladel I use is a lyman, I have no control issues with it. The issue of the bottom pour being faster than a ladel is not entirely correct. I have cast literality thousands of cast bullets/round balls with both the ladel and bottom pour, and don't see the ladel as slower. The hard part would be having to use just one method instead of both. I would buy a Lee 20 pound pot bottom pour and get a ladel, it will serve double duty.
Merch

 

[Otter]

Merch,

Is that you? If so, I done thought you'd gone under . . .

I agree with you 100% and have done, and still do, the same thing. If you are the Merch I know - heck I learned it from you . . .

 

[10 gauge]

I have a LEE Production pot, a Lyman ladel and an RCBS ladel, but I favor my RCBS hand ladel out of all of them.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Ron: Have you tried to polish the spout on your pot? I found this helped immensely to get the pot to stop dripping. It also seems to prevent the spout from plugging up. I polish both the inside of the spout, and the plug itself. A few minutes with very fine emery cloth. If you have a 1/4" diameter dowel that you can cut a groove in, put the emery cloth in the groove and let the powder handdrill do the polishing of the spout.

Is your heating element working properly? A friend has had to send his " guts" back to SAECO over the years to be cleaned, and recalibrated, or have parts replace. He does high volume casting, however, and most of us will never wear out a casting pot as he does.

Paul, By taking the rod out and cleaning both the rod and the pot yes I can keep it from dripping, and my pot is working fine as far as temperature control goes. Also yes a guy can mess with the spout and get it to run fair for a while, but if a guy is pouring over 300 gr bullets, the bottom pour pots can slowly plug over the course of the casting project with lead oxides, mostly the yellow kind. This will cause LARGE differences in the weight of bullets. I am kind of finicky when it comes to my bullets and I want the most perfect bullets I can make. I have found that the bottom pour lee production pot leaves a lot to be desired for consistency on large bullets.
The largest bullets I am making are pushing 550 grains. These moulds NEED to be filled quickly with HOT lead, or the bullets don't fill out the grease groves correctly. A slow spout also will cause wrinkles, weight fluctuation, and even hollow spots in the bullets. Casting Large bullets with consistency is a different game all together.
A bottom pour pot for RB's might be fine. Most RB's are not that heavy, but for the truly heavy weight RB and conicals I still think that the ladle would be better.
I will still use my bottom pour pot for some lighter bullets say less than 300 gr but for anything over that I will stick with a ladle. Ron

 

[jtmattison]

Ron,
I know what you're saying with big bullets. I cast 450 grain Lyman Plains bullets and I had trouble with my Lee bottom pour filling the mold fast enough. Clogging was also becoming a problem. I remedied both by drilling the spout slightly oversize. No no more clogging and VERY consistently poured large bullets. Best of both worlds IMO.

HD

 

[Idaho Ron]

So what size hole did you go to? I have thought about doing that but if it is screwed up the next step would to plug it for good. Ron

 

[jtmattison]

So what size hole did you go to? I have thought about doing that but if it is screwed up the next step would to plug it for good. Ron

:hmm:

Honestly, I don't remember. I took my drill index and started with the smallest and stuck them through the existing hole. When I came to the first bit that wouldn't go through the hole I chucked it up and drilled through.
As long as you don't drill it larger than the plunger you shouldn't have a problem.

HD

 

[samerch]

Otter
Yep it's me, have not gone under yet. Just got back from rabbit hunting with my 20ga flinter. Glad to here your still out there.
Merch

 

[Idaho Ron]

:hmm:

Honestly, I don't remember. I took my drill index and started with the smallest and stuck them through the existing hole. When I came to the first bit that wouldn't go through the hole I chucked it up and drilled through.
As long as you don't drill it larger than the plunger you shouldn't have a problem.

HD

:thumbsup: I might have to give it a try this winter. Ron