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To Shine or not to Shine: That is the Question

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Well, just me..but one difference is the concept of owning land. Native Americans did not view land as something one "owned". Then we have the ideology of the white man. Sort of the kind England had for years. "I know everything...you know nothing". And finally, we have the manure the politicians and the gov't pulled. It wasn't necessarily the conflict that was wrong..just the deviousness of most whites in getting what they wanted. That, and this manure they had and still have..Emminent Domain.
 
Pepperbelly and Cody, thanks for your kind words:
First a comparison of the English/American approach to the "Native problem" with that of the French.The English were interested in the expansion of white settlement regardless of the welfare or rights of Natives.As one of my Choctaw brothers put it, "The English look through us as they would a pane of glass; they do not see us they see only our forests,our game,and our lands".Treaty after treaty was broken by them but there is no record of Natives breaking treaties.The English accepted Native assistance in the Revolutuionarry War but abandoned them afterwards although some went to Canada.The Americans were no better and those Natives who had either remained neutral or supported the Americans saw their lands lost and found themselves treated as adversaries and shipped westward. The Cherokee who reached a level of civilization superior to many Whites were rewarded with the Trail of Tears by a Government to appease the whites' insatiable thirst for land and in Georgia,gold.

The French,on the other hand,viewed Natives as trading partners and encouraged social interaction and even intermarriage between the French Canadiens and Natives.It is very interesting to note that after the Great Peace of August 1701 that there was virtually no fighting between the French and the Natives except for an occasionable encounter between a few individuals.Last year Karl Kostner of Wisconsin or Minnesota who is very knowlegeable on the fur trade remarked to the stunned disbelief of many of us including me that the Voyageurs manning the freight canoes for the Montreal and Quebec traders did not carry guns on their way to and from the high country and that the few guns that were carried belonged to the agents of the traders in charge of the canoes and were intended for hunting to provide meat.I now see the wisdom of his statement which shows clearly the relationship between the French and their Native trading parties.For those who are interested in this part of Canadian history and the early fur trade in general I recommend two excellent books which have recently been published:
"The Great Peace" by Alain Beaulieu and Roland Viau with original illustrations by Francis Back
"ADVENTURERS IN THE NEW WORLD The Saga Of The Coureurs Des Bois by Georges-Hebert Germain, Original illustrations by Francis Back
Both are available in French and English and can be ordered from The Canadian Museum of Civilization,100 Laurier Street Hull,Quebec, Canada J8X 4H2 and I believe both are available from the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Neb.

As to the movies mentioned, I agree as to Dances With Wolves which, as far as I can tell based my limited knowlege of plains Indians,did a great job showing the hunman side of the Lakota.As to "The Patriot"I viewed it as "Mad Max in the Rev.War.The church burning alone showed an abysmal lack of historical knowlege. NO British officer would have burned a church full of non combatants. The British officer corps was primarily Anglican{Episcopalian}although a few were Presbyterian;{ probably Major Patrick Ferguson}.South Carolinians were virtually all members of those two denominations. Although the movie does't tell us which, the table shown with a cross suggests Anglican and if so Tavington/Tarleton would never have burned it.
Last of the Mohicans was enjoyable and to some degree followed the book.Although I did read{suffer through}the book some years ago my more literate friends bemoaned the fact tht the movie didn't follow the book too closely.A friend calls this movie the"John Wayne F&I movie"The best way to enjoy this movie is to imagine you are in the era of Errol Flynn pirate movies and ignore the 18th century hockey stick,the early 19th century Lehigh Valley rifle and all the other historical discrepancies and have some escapism fun.
Thanks again
Tom Patton :thumbsup:
 
Church burning: while I think I agree that the British would not have burned churches full of noncombatants, they DID burn churches in South Carolina at least. The Presbyterian churches were considered nests of rebels or rebel sympathizers (much as some today view Mosques)and the dominantly Anglican British DID burn some of those churches. Combine that fact with the massacre of rebels who had surrendered and laid down arms by Tarleton and others and it is not much of a leap to the scene in the Patriot movie. There is a very good little book on the Carolina part of the war that is a must read for Rev War enthusiasts, and again my 60+ yr old brain has misplaced the title...somrthing like (Patriots) and Redcoats, but I don't think 'Patriots' is the right word....I'll have to look it up. :m2c:
 
When I was QMS and wepons inspector for the local WBTS unit we would sometimes getr "soldiers" with the impression that "this was 135 years ago the guns are supposed to be rusted" then I had to inform them that "no this is 1863 and the gun is near new".
The point I am trying to make is we see old guns the settlers saw new guns.
 
P.S., the book I referenced is called 'Partisans and Redcoats: the southern conflict that turned the tide of the American Revolution' by Walter B. Edgar and is a must read for anyone in the south and anyone who likes AWI history. It is out in paperback. One of the best books I have read on our revolution....makes the Patriot movie seem tame.
 
My rifle (or I mean my son's rifle with the brass fittings) is well oiled, free of rust, stock well fed with BLO, but the brass is dull. I like it like that. I told him when I made it for him not to shine the brass. It just looks better to me that way and has no affect on the functioning of his rifle. I have a trade gun I made for myself and it has dull brass also.

I started rondevouing in the late 70's and I guess we weren't so aware of personas, PC, and such so we had to use whatever rifle we could buy, build, or trade for not knowing or much caring if we were being PC or not. Our rifles took a beating on trail walks and hunts and aged naturally. The main emphasis was on accuracy and performance and some of the ugliest rifles I've ever seen were in the hands of some of the best shooters.

Of course I collect all kinds of military rifles and handguns, classic shotguns, and rifles, .22's, etc. and I like them all to show honest wear. I don't like new looking refinished old guns so I'm consistent in my likes and dislikes.
 
If were talking about hunting, I'm not going to start a cluster, after all the last deer I shot, I was smoking a cigarette sitting next to a nice fire when he walked right across the field in front of me. ::

Now if were talking about how an OLD gun should look... to me there's nothing that makes me happier then to see a brass patchbox on a flintlock with that dark patina. :thumbsup:

TheGunCellar
 
In the day, I think that polishing would be a luxury and if in the field for any great length of time, you know that everything ended up dulled but still clean.

Plus not having shiny objects around those that would shoot you if they saw the reflection was a big incentive to not keep things polished.

Today in the 21st century:
Everything of mine with brass or silver get's polished and shined on a regular basis.

The deer could care less, but I happen like brass and silver clean and polished.
 
To shine or not to shine,

I am with the Queen's Rangers a Rev. War Loyalist unit that still is a standing Regiment in the modern Canadian Armed Forces , Reserve. We generaly are 18th century re-enactors but do take part in modern ceremonies as an Historic Guard with the Regiment.

We have an active representation of the Light and Highland Companies of the original unit circa 1779. During the Rev. War these 2 companies were on significant extended duty, think like the equivilant of an 18th century SAS with long range partrols, prisoner snatches, and the like. We tend to want to leave our uniforms, brass and leather belting to dirty up, tarnish, etc. to look like we would have been in the field for months.

Every couple of years we are asked to paricipate in various ceremonies with the Regiment; Change of Command, Change of RSM, indiction of an Honourary Colonel, indiction of the Honourary Colonel in Chief. So..clean the uniforms, polish the belting, shine all metal to bright and prepared to stand inspection. We go from seasoned veterans to parade square soldiers and start the ageing process all over again.

I was at the induction of our present Colonel in Chief, His Royal Highness the Duke of York, Prince Andrew, so you can be sure everything was sparkling.

Dave
 

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