Too many options for rifle build

[Cruzatte]

I have an alternative suggestion brought on by personal experience. I always wanted to build a rifle. I failed extravagantly my first time out. The second time out, I followed the suggestion of a friend who had built and repaired several muzzle loading rifles. His suggestion was to build a trade gun.

Why build a trade gun? Because the locks are large as are some of the parts making it a more forgiving first project. I'd recommend Caywood's Wilson Chief's gun, or their northwest trade gun.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I've looked a lot online. Keep going back to Kibler due to the quality. Like you, I don't want to put a rifle together. But I have read a lot of hit and miss with other kits and their quality. Kibler, TVM, Chambers seem to be high quality. TOTW seems to be out of stock of a lot of items. Same with Pecatonica. Looked into Sitting Fox and found some decent kits. Then read some nit so good stories of shopping and quality issues.

You have a lot of decisions to make. If you like one of the styles that Kibler offers and you want a flintlock where all you have to do is snap the parts together and then finish it that would be a good deal. Just remember a deep crescent butt plate SMR rifle is shot differently than a flat butt plate colonial. All the kits the LOP is what someone decided is the average shooter which just doesn't work for me.
Chambers has more styles to choose from and offer options for percussion rifles. They will also leave the inlet for the butt plate off if you need a longer LOP. They do require more work doing the final fitting of parts but that doesn't take a lot of tools just some more time.
Dunlap Woodcrafts is another company that offers excellent kits on par with Chambers.
I have used several Pecatonica pre-carves and also blanks with the barrel channel and ramrod hole done. I feel like anytime I have ordered from them I have gotten better quality wood than I paid for. As others Have said don't get the lock inlet on a pre-carve so you can make sure it is where it needs to be. They also have a large selection of different style. They will also be a lot more work but then you will learn more.
From what I have seen posted by others. Track Of The Wolf, Muzzleloaders Builders Supply, Sitting Fox and others are using pre-carves from Pecatonica.
Good Luck

 

[Flintandsteel]

In reading your first post, you really don’t want any kit, other than a Kibler.
Track, Chambers, Pecawhoever.
Kibler is basically Legos. A snap together, authentic, truly a “kit”.
All the others are “parts sets”, requiring a lot of tools, and some mechanical ability, as well as a tremendous amount of time.
Any Kibler kit can be completely assembled in less than 8 hours, ready to sand and finish.

 

[BS2366]

In reading your first post, you really don’t want any kit, other than a Kibler.
Track, Chambers, Pecawhoever.
Kibler is basically Legos. A snap together, authentic, truly a “kit”.
All the others are “parts sets”, requiring a lot of tools, and some mechanical ability, as well as a tremendous amount of time.
Any Kibler kit can be completely assembled in less than 8 hours, ready to sand and finish.

Would love to donate more hands on build. Just don't have all the tools.

 

[Psycho Mike]

As others have said, you're likely going to get a lot of "Kibler, Kibler, Kibler" in terms of a first kit, and I'm not going to say otherwise.

I'm a lot like you...I've had MLs in the past, but when it came time that I wanted to put one together I had to take stock in a similar way...I don't have a dedicated workspace or much more than basic tools around. I've got a plethora of skills and technical knowledge, but no significant gunsmithing experience.

So, considering my options where I live are pretty much a Traditions Kentucky kit, trying to get an Investarms Gemmer Hawken / Lyman Great Plains kit or going Kibler, I went with the latter (Colonial flinter in .58cal). Quality wise, reputation wise, value wise and overall price wise it was pretty much a no-brainer, especially up here in the Great White North. Kibler uses swamped Green Mountain barrels and does have a smoothbore option on the Colonial (just to confirm it ticks those boxes for you).

I'm pretty much wrapping up the last little bits of my build (and I jumped in and did some minor decorating / personalization) and I'd say it's certainly a good option for a first build. While folks who build MLs from blanks (or even go out and find / mill their own blanks) may disparage them as "Lego kits," there is still some work to do and Jim has left the Colonial as a blank slate so you can go further if you want (i.e. carving / personalizations). They are not overly difficult kits (but neither are the Kentucky or Hawken I mentioned above), but they are good quality and should last...plus they do offer a tempting, easy entrance for folks to "fall down the rabbit hole" and do more in the future.

I hope Jim will forgive me for putting it this way (he does frequent the board), but his kits are gateway drug in the ML building world....so grab one, strap in and be prepared to become addicted

 

[ChuckJonesWagon]

My last build was started with a block of wood. (See pic below) Now I built (for the first time) a half stock, but frankly, it's no more difficult to build a full stock. This build was for a small frame person (kid or small female) so my objective was cheap, low recoil .45 cal, not a cookie cutter, hook breech barrel for easy cleaning. I very roughly followed the pattern of a NW Trade rifle, but with a quick removable barrel and a rifled barrel. Those who appreciate historical copies are not fond of this, but considering my objective it fit what I wanted.

I bought the half stock and for another $35 had the barrel channel cut and the RR hole drilled. Yes, you can do it yourself....but for the price I thought it a bargain. Since everything measures from the barrel it's key to have a good inlet with the proper flow of the wood grain.

I made the buttplate, RR tubes and nose cap from sheet brass. Since I wanted to keep cost down I made simple parts. Time I have so that's the why and how.

If you're going to build I'd strongly suggest buying a book on the "how to". There are many good ones out there.

Anyway....here's a pic of the start....and then two pic's of the finish. (The start pic was after I rough cut the shape on a band saw)

 

[sportster73hp]

I have built two Kiblers , 1 1/2 from the rifle shop (second needs completed) and one from a plank. If you want to build one from plank, go to rumble and watch Mr Raby’s videos. He is very in depth and you will learn. Tools are good and a vise to hold the part you are working on. Finished the plank with a vice c-clamped to an old table.

 

[deerstalkert]

I don't have the tools, patience, or time to inlet s barrel. Wish I did!

wishes become reality with attempting the chore.
first barrel inletting i did, i think i had 2 chisels. 1 inch and 1/4. still have the 1 inch but i ground the 1/4 down to 1/8.
I would recommend Muzzloaderbuilderssupply.com
maybe not to buy one of their kits but they have a full list of the proper parts for whatever you decide to build. really helps.

 

[waksupi]

I think the only thing I really had to do on a Woodsrunner was enlarge the lock mortise slightly, to reduce possibility of splitting the wood in wet conditions. As it came, it would have needed forced in, whereas a lock should basically fall out in your hand when the bolts are removed, and the stock tipped. Check out old English guns.

 

[sportster73hp]

I think the only thing I really had to do on a Woodsrunner was enlarge the lock mortise slightly, to reduce possibility of splitting the wood in wet conditions. As it came, it would have needed forced in, whereas a lock should basically fall out in your hand when the bolts are removed, and the stock tipped. Check out old English guns.

My smr snaps in. I usually need to use the lock bolt to push it out. Haven’t broken it in three years and 800+ rounds.

 

[Mike in FL]

You have a lot of decisions to make. If you like one of the styles that Kibler offers and you want a flintlock where all you have to do is snap the parts together and then finish it that would be a good deal. Just remember a deep crescent butt plate SMR rifle is shot differently than a flat butt plate colonial. All the kits the LOP is what someone decided is the average shooter which just doesn't work for me.
Chambers has more styles to choose from and offer options for percussion rifles. They will also leave the inlet for the butt plate off if you need a longer LOP. They do require more work doing the final fitting of parts but that doesn't take a lot of tools just some more time.
Dunlap Woodcrafts is another company that offers excellent kits on par with Chambers.
I have used several Pecatonica pre-carves and also blanks with the barrel channel and ramrod hole done. I feel like anytime I have ordered from them I have gotten better quality wood than I paid for. As others Have said don't get the lock inlet on a pre-carve so you can make sure it is where it needs to be. They also have a large selection of different style. They will also be a lot more work but then you will learn more.
From what I have seen posted by others. Track Of The Wolf, Muzzleloaders Builders Supply, Sitting Fox and others are using pre-carves from Pecatonica.
Good Luck

I might be the only person alive that will disagree that the rifles with a crescent butt plate are shot differently. I shoot crescent or flat the same way. Of course the flat butt will fit the shooter more comfortably if he thinks about it, but I shoulder them the same way with either gun and notice nothing. Everywhere I hear the crescent butts are on the upper arm. I always ask why? I am of slight build and maybe that is the reason, I don't know. Placing the butt on my arm feels extremely awkward to me. I just thought I throw that in so the OP can decide for himself.

 

[waksupi]

My smr snaps in. I usually need to use the lock bolt to push it out. Haven’t broken it in three years and 800+ rounds.

We shoot year around, rain or shine. If parts are too tight and things get wet, they can and do run a chance of splitting. Different climates make a difference.

 

[sportster73hp]

We shoot year around, rain or shine. If parts are too tight and things get wet, they can and do run a chance of splitting. Different climates make a difference.

My club shoots January through October and a few outings in November and December to stay in practice. I do understand the need for clearance, just seem to have enough.