Took my friends son deer hunting, but it did not end up as expected.

[R.J.Bruce]

One of the reasons that I have posted so many times in this thread is because of the 6 negative encounters that I have had with domesticated "pet" dogs, ones with collars & tags, in my 66 years on this planet.

I have been EXTREMELY fortunate NOT to have been maimed in those 6 encounters. The dogs were.....

2 Chihuahuas
2 German Shepherds
1 Doberman Pinscher
1 mutt

Both chihuahuas broke the skin on my ankles/hamstrings. Both got drop kicked into the next century, most likely with broken ribs. One was deliberately set upon me (paperboy) by his mean spirited little old lady owner. The other bit me in Anchorage in a public park running around unleashed, after I warned his arrogant male owner twice to keep the dog away from me.

And, least you think me a sissy for kicking the poor little chihuahuas, a dog that size is FULLY CAPABLE of damaging the muscles/tendons/ligaments in a full grown man's leg, causing permanent, maiming harm to one's gait/ability to walk.

One of the german shepherds broke a 4"×4" support post for a 2nd floor back porch in a row house, due to repeatedly lunging against a heavy steel chain that was attached to a tight choke collar. He then easily leaped a 4' chain link fence to attack me as I was walking past the back yard on my way to work after school. I escaped harm by leaping up onto first the hood of a parked car, and then the roof. He got kicked in the head with steel toed work boots, and because he could not gain traction on the painted surface of the car I escaped harm until his bubble headed female co-owner came out to see what all the commotion was about, and reined him in. Albeit with difficulty. Had he been SMART enough to leap up onto the hood like I did he might have gotten me.

The other german shepherd had been abused by children as a puppy by being poked in the side through a chain link fence by sticks. Without knowing any better, I was talking to his owner, leaning over a fence, scratching his ears. When I went to scratch his belly, something most dogs like, he quietly let me know that was NOT SOMETHING THAT HE LIKED. He did so by calmly turning his head, and powerfully clamping his jaws around my forearm above the wrist that was scratching his belly. Knew EXACTLY what he was doing. Did not break the skin on my bare arm. Just his way of letting me know, "I DON'T LIKE THAT!!!!!. STOP RIGHT NOW!!!!".

One day in my early 20's, before the military, I was riding my bicycle, and had to detour through a neighborhood in Baltimore that I was unfamiliar with due to road construction. A black man drinking beer on his row house front porch saw a white kid on a bike, opened the screen door (this was summer, prior to blue collar folks having air conditioning), let loose his doberman, and told him to get me (multiple racial expletives to that effect).

Which, the dog happily proceded to do. At top doberman speed, 2,467 mph. And, I jumped on my racing bike's pedals at top white boy speed, minus 432 mph. Or, so it seemed. It took me about 4 blocks, pedaling as hard as I could, swinging my Zefal bike pump intermittently at his head (bending it, & ruining it), before he got tired of chasing me, and quit.

The mutt was our pet that turned on us, bit a neighbor kid, as well as my sister, and was put down. Nearly got me half a dozen times before my parents got clued in that it wasn't me, it was the dog.

In Alaska I saw what racing dogs will do to one another if they are hungry enough, and outstep their position in the sled hierarchy.

And, I've seen up close and personal, the results of what happens when so-called domesticated dogs chase deer down, worry them, tease them, tear them up in all kinds of hideous ways, BUT LEAVE THEM MAIMED AND ALIVE in incredible pain, to slowly die a death that I would not wish on my worst enemy.

I am always suspect of people that make blanket statements like the one SPQR70AD made about the OP, and anyone that agreed with what he had done. Without personally knowing the person, or their character. Because of sentiment for a domesticated dog turned feral vs a landowner/farmer protecting his livestock.

 

[Bob McBride]

RJ, I got to your first mention of Chihuahuas and was worried but you recovered nicely.

I agree about blanket statements, as it reminds me of something I heard somewhere about if your philosophy spits absolutes back at you it’s a good indicator it’s a bad one. Attacking you and leaving a little hole or two requiring a couple of butterfly bandaids on your arm or leg is about the only danger a dog poses in some places, I understand. Where I live livestock is right up there with your life and property and I’ve seen packs of 7-8 dogs in my woods. Big dogs. And no PO-PO within 20 mins at the least. These dogs kill calves. We even had a pack this year maim a good sized heifer. Out here they expect you to handle these things yourself anyway. The local law is too busy at $3 a round dominoes down at Billy’s anyways.

A neighbor’s dog chased me down the street snarling and biting at my calves for a whole week as a kid and dad made me walk back with him past the dog’s house. He had a stick and thumped the dog medium-light across the snout sending the dog running and yelping, teaching me a valuable lesson in self preservation. I was amazed. It was like Kung Fu Theater. I also learned at about 19yo and deployed to SW Asia, that a dog with a collar will lose if you keep your head and don’t worry about a little nip or two. That lesson cost me a tetanus shot and 25 stitches but I never failed after to notice if a dog that was looking at me sideways had a collar or not. If that boy has a collar on, after the fur is done flying, I will have won.

And as discussed above, if I have my Glock 19 w/ 15 round mag (my daily farm carry) there better be an awfully lot of dogs.... There is no worry about ‘getting it out quickly’. Slow and steady wins the race. This isn’t braggadocio, if you go where there are animals that can hurt you, you better have worked through your head how you are going to react in a given instance and be prepared to take damage as well as give it. Just always be prepared to win. Simple as that.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Bob, situational awareness, and a good draw with marksmanship win , win situation. As Bill Hickok stated speed is good but a cool head and accuracy is better. Many years ago while hunting deer I was perched up on a big rock, a big doe came bye me with her tounge dragging the ground and was about done for, As she staggered past me I noticed two large German Shepard's trailing her when they got to my perch I stood up and yelled at them, immediately their attention turned to me as they attempted to come up the rock, They were very aggressive in the attempt so I gave both of them 180 gr. presents. These dogs were in very good shape and more than likely someone's pets, no collars but you could tell they were not feral dogs. Later when I told my hunting partner what happened he stated you did kill them right. I love dogs but will not tolerate a cross dog small or large especially one that kills deer or livestock. And bye the way never trust a little dog they have attitudes.

 

[Bob McBride]

Bob, situational awareness, and a good draw with marksmanship win , win situation. As Bill Hickok stated speed is good but a cool head and accuracy is better. Many years ago while hunting deer I was perched up on a big rock, a big doe came bye me with her tounge dragging the ground and was about done for, As she staggered past me I noticed two large German Shepard's trailing her when they got to my perch I stood up and yelled at them, immediately their attention turned to me as they attempted to come up the rock, They were very aggressive in the attempt so I gave both of them 180 gr. presents. These dogs were in very good shape and more than likely someone's pets, no collars but you could tell they were not feral dogs. Later when I told my hunting partner what happened he stated you did kill them right. I love dogs but will not tolerate a cross dog small or large especially one that kills deer or livestock. And bye the way never trust a little dog they have attitudes.

Yes sir. "Situational Awareness", "Waiting your turn", "Transitional Spaces", are all the familiar terms for folks trained to be aware and reactive in all scenarios. I often take my truck to my range so I can train with IWB draws from either seatbelted or transitioning from the cab to outside the door. Just as I train reaching for my bedside firearm from all the positions I sleep in. I'm not afraid of dying nearly as much as I am afraid of leaving my less able loved ones in compromising situations. All my years shooting 3-gun were from all my years as a rifleman in the Marine Corps, which was from all my years growing up rural in Alaska. I used to train heavily with modern pistols from the holster (probably something on the order of 1 million rounds all told) in all sorts of scenarios against steel for time and I can tell you going slow is the best way to go fast....

I also love dogs and other domesticated critters more than most emotional 'animal lovers'. I have a kennel full of squirrel dogs, a wolf-dog guard dog, several porch dogs, a few here and there adopted mutts, 6 cats in the house, and something like 50 livestock animals give or take. I always feel a deep sadness when I shoot a deer or even a squirrel and always pet it a bit while mumbling a little something. I'll stack my 'animal loving' against anyone's even though I personally kill at least 30 critters every year..... That said, I can't watch that Humane Society sad homeless puppy commercial to save my life....

 

[Atticus69]

Gentlemen, I am certainly glad you posted here. While I consider myself an accomplished marksman and I am just enough of a woodsman to know not to run. I likely would not have considered backing down or walking away from a larger pack of dogs even if the odds were stacked against me. I certainly learned something, slowly backing away would be much simpler and if backing away doesn't work, you can still defend yourself. Even with my trusty revolver as a backup, I still would have only 7 shots without reloading, no matter the number of aggressors, backing away from a larger pack of dogs certainly does make sense. It may just save your life.

Dogs, like bears are of the canine family. If backing away to avoid stimulating an attack then you should also never look an aggressive dog in the eye. That is a direct challenge. Watch them by not looking directly at them----same with a bear. Do the opposite with members of the feline family. Cats take their prey by stealth from the side or behind and do not like to be looked in the eye.

 

[Bob McBride]

Dogs, like bears are of the canine family. If backing away to avoid stimulating an attack then you should also never look an aggressive dog in the eye. That is a direct challenge. Watch them by not looking directly at them----same with a bear. Do the opposite with members of the feline family. Cats take their prey by stealth from the side or behind and do not like to be looked in the eye.

Bears are definitely categorized as Caniforms (doglike carnivores), but carry no canine DNA at all. They belong to the Ursidae family.

 

[Atticus69]

Bears are definitely categorized as Caniforms (doglike carnivores), but carry no canine DNA at all. They belong to the Ursidae family.

Sorry for the technical slip but the info remains correct concerning eye contact.

 

[Bob McBride]

Sorry for the technical slip but the info remains correct concerning eye contact.

Yes it absolutely does.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Bob, Look into I.D.P.A. individual defensive pistol association, the matches are you a timer and possible real life situations. I shot professionally for years in these and also POLICE PISTOL COMBAT MATCHES worked my way up to master marksman and laid the guns down, But still put in a lot of range time with the side arms. As you many thousands of rounds down range and still counting, used both semi auto and wheel gun.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Looks like self defense to me.

Many years ago (early 1990''s) a friend was bow hunting and was attacked by a pack of feral dogs. He got one with his bow and managed to escape. Once home, he grabbed his brother's .22 semi-auto rifle, went back out, found the pack, and killed them all.

I applauded his efforts since that pack might have eventually attacked a small child playing in the woods.

About 2000 I read in a gun magazine how a guy went out hiking with his Browning Hi Power but only one mag and full metal jackets. He was attacked by a pack of feral dogs and if I remember correctly "I'd hit one, knock him down, but he'd get back up again. I guess it was the FMJ's. The Hi Power did save my life though since I normally just carry a J-frame (5 shot revolver)." Later in the article the DNR got involved and found out it was a dangerous pack led by a very large dog the owner let run loose.

A friend I grew up with told me he "shot every dog he saw in the woods" since "they put pressure on deer." I've never done this but I will not allow myself or an innocent to be attacked by anyone or anything.

 

[Bob McBride]

Bob, Look into I.D.P.A. individual defensive pistol association, the matches are you a timer and possible real life situations. I shot professionally for years in these and also POLICE PISTOL COMBAT MATCHES worked my way up to master marksman and laid the guns down, But still put in a lot of range time with the side arms. As you many thousands of rounds down range and still counting, used both semi auto and wheel gun.

I've been to a few as a guest but shot mostly in local NSSF in a club in Texas. When we bought the farm here I was just too busy anymore and so built a range I could set up courses of fire on and shot mostly handgun on them for years with buddies but I do have shotgun knockdowns and still run rifle a few dozen times a year. I have several movable target frames that I set up as barricades, still have my speed rig and love to shoot 5-10 shot courses with at least one mag change. I can still sub 1 sec draw and run about .12 splits on the old PPII, but it takes around 100 rounds to get me there on any given day unless I've been shooting a lot. Getting old...

 

[appalichian hunter]

Practice point or instinctive and weak hand, most gun fights take place at 10 to 15 yards with a average of 5-7 shots, never let anything get within your circle of defense 21 feet, and never forget to scan the area of incident for secondary threats, be safe.

 

[Christophero]

It's easy to be self righteous about not killing a dog when you don't have any scars to show for it. One of the most traumatic experiences I've encountered was being chased and dragged down by a neighbor's german shephard as a boy. The fangs in the butt hurt but the realization that I might die from this dog was even more scary. Thankfully a relative pulled into the driveway in time to rescue me from further damage. That dog should have been put down, but Dad didn't want bad blood with the neighbors. I could never trust that dog again while we lived in that area. A feral dog is even less trust worthy.
O, and the other neighbor's dog was a ring leader in attaching our sheep. Mild mannered family dog by day and a livestock molesting mutt when his canine buddies came calling in the darker hours. Dad's shotgun couldn't reach them but they knew exactly what he was doing when he yelled early one morning at them with it in his hands.
I love dogs and have raised many, but if one bares it teeth at me then that one goes. If they love me but bare their teeth at little children then they cannot stay, either. It's not worth it.

 

[Sam squanch]

Fellow down the road had a dog problem. Dog belonged to some transplants who taught at the college. Warned them repeated the dog was aggressive, chased livestock, etc. “if you shoot our poor dog you will be sued!”was the reply. Frank had enough one day. Shot the dog. Poured catchup on his arm. Wrapped it in a thin towel. Went up to the braintastic duo and told them he killed the dog after being attacked, and was going to sue THEM! That ended that in a hurry. By the way, the main party in this event is now passed on, if any of the “poor dog owners “ are reading this, which I doubt....

 

[Greg Blackburn]

I was charged by an off-leash pit bull in 2019. That dog came very close to being shot....had the owner not called it off when she did, my .38 would have spoken about two seconds later.

Turned out, letting that dog off-leash really cost the owner. She and her friend were squatting, having illegally entered and were living in a condo cost-free. Had the dog been on-leash and / or not charged me, I never would have said anything to the property manager, who then informed the owner of the squatters. They were escorted off the property the next day. Had they acted a little better, they could have stayed there all summer and fall, with free utilities to boot!

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Dogs, like bears are of the canine family. If backing away to avoid stimulating an attack then you should also never look an aggressive dog in the eye. That is a direct challenge. Watch them by not looking directly at them----same with a bear. Do the opposite with members of the feline family. Cats take their prey by stealth from the side or behind and do not like to be looked in the eye.

I look everything and everyone in the eye.......

 

[jcs266]

Here in California a dog on your property that is harassing or is known to harass or kill any livestock or chickens, etc. can be shot by the property owner and there is no recourse by the owner of the dog.

I am speaking of rural areas here where livestock and/or chickens are raised. We are in a very small rural town in the mountains of the high desert. We have chickens, ducks, pigs.

Obviously in the city this would be a different matter.

 

[appalichian hunter]

That's interesting jcs, I thought you fellas were regulated to you know sticks and rocks. Just pulling yer leg a vicious dog is nothing to be took lightly.

 

[Woody Morgan]

Here in California a dog on your property that is harassing or is known to harass or kill any livestock or chickens, etc. can be shot by the property owner and there is no recourse by the owner of the dog.

I am speaking of rural areas here where livestock and/or chickens are raised. We are in a very small rural town in the mountains of the high desert. We have chickens, ducks, pigs.

Obviously in the city this would be a different matter.

Same here in the Central Valley mountains. Snarl at me on my property or be caught molesting our wildlife or domestic stock, you're dead. SSS applies in this part of Ca too.

wm

 

[jcs266]

Woody,

Yes over the years we’ve had a number of stray or feral dogs that we’ve had to deal with. There’s an state Agricultural Code that clearly states a rancher or owner of livestock including chickens can kill a mischievous dog on their property that’s a threat to those animals - and also states there is NO RECOURSE for the dog’s owners.

We love animals and have numerous dogs ourselves, so it’s a sad thing to do, but MY animals are defended when necessary.