Tools in shot pouch

[coloradoclyde]

Really nice looking kit!... :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

I have a rule of thumb I follow...
If my bag starts to dig into my neck, rattle or clank as I walk or bounce against my side...I'm carrying to much manure.

 

[MSW]

I would make a different slant on it:

inasmuch as this is a highly individualized game, what works well for other might or might not do for you: but it's a good starting point.

I would get a small bag of some sort, which you can easily carry (a small or medium purse at the Goodwill can get you started ... you can bust it up and use the leather for later on). ... fill this with the stuff you think you'll need, and then go to the range with (in addition to the other stuff) a notebook and a pen. WRITE DOWN the tools you use, as you reload and shoot and clean. If there's something you didn't bring, make note of that, too.

Then simply take the stuff you don't use out of the bag. Repeat this process a half dozen times, and you'll have a pretty efficient bag list.

then, take the purse and make a bag about the same size in a style that you find appealing. For good instructions on how to make a bag, check out this book:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/49/1/BOOK-R18-CHP

Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch is not that expensive, considering the knowledge you get, and the whole project shouldn't set you back any more than the cost of a new pouch

but

you will have the knowledge
you will have the skill set
you will have the book
you will have the tools (ironically, my pouch tools are now in the tackle box which once held the shooting stuff)
you will have a pouch of your own making (remember, the coolest tools are the one you make for yourself)

now, when you get your next muzzle loader, you can make a bag specifically for that gun and, in the fullness of time, you will have a pouch for each gun, and you will have joined the realm of the cool guys.

Good luck with your project, and Make Good Smoke!

 

[Many Klatch]

Artificer, at the big rendezvous like the Eastern sometimes they have woodswalks where you are to carry what you would need for a 3 day scout in hostile territory (or another scenario). So along the way there may be stations where a judge with a clip board may ask to see if you have several items with you. Points for having the items and negative points if you don't.

I ran a station at one event where the contestant had to sit down blindfolded and then change their flint or if they had a percussion they had to pull and replace the nipple. There were a lot of people that didn't have the necessary tools with them. They didn't have to actually install a new nipple or flint, but they had to have the tools handy and they needed to know where they were. Oh and by the way they had only 5 minutes to accomplish this task.

So most of this is not needed at Friendship in competition, but if you are halfway along the 18 shot woodswalk, and you need to fix something, it can be a long way back to camp to get a turn screw or a flint.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So I know what "works" for me...., now..., in the past it didn't work quite as well, and I have modified stuff until it does. Case in point, reach in and get stuck by something sharp (edge of a loose flint, the vent hole prick) means "it's not working". :haha:

So..., in the bottom of my bag..., is my tiny lead ladle, a small piece of lead, my bullet mold, a small Arkansas stone, and a tiny skinning knife in its sheath.

Next is a deerhide cinch sack holding...., half a dozen spare flints, a wad of tow, a tiny brass funnel for refilling my horn, a replacement leather for the lock's jaws, a lock mainspring vise, a wooden container holding gun grease/bullet lube and a worm, and a small wooden ramrod-puller. When cinched closed, this forms a barrier to the bottom of the bag as its length fills up the bag....so I sort of have two chambers in the bag, one below the cinch sack, and one above.

On top of this goes a ring of tools, having a prick, a brush, a tiny brass hammer, and a turnscrew. Also on top are two strips of patching material, and a bullet board that is attached to the interior of the bag with a leather whang.

A tiny pocket is sewn inside the back of the bag to hold a bag ball of about a dozen rounds. The powder measure is attached to the bag strap by a leather whang, and the patch knife is on the bag strap in a sheath. I normally don't use the ring of tools as I also have a brass hat pin stuck into the seam of the patch knife sheath. I confess I am more prone to use the spine of my patch knife near the handle to tighten the lock jaw screw or the same location to knap my flint edge. I could probably omit the ring of tools, but they are cool looking. :wink:

The flap on my bag is held closed with a button, so I have no risk of dumping anything out.

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

You and Many Klatch brought up some points about Woods Walks of which I am not aware.

Back in the 70's, I competed in the Northwest Trade Gun Aggregate fairly regularly at Friendship and even ran it one time for a day. The idea then was IF you did not have something you needed for the match once you crossed a line, you had to do without and often lost points. So you needed your flint and steel kit, throwing knife and tomahawk, plus everything to shoot the gun with both round balls and shot. However, both of you seem to be relating that modern Woods Walks require more gear than that?

Since the tools and equipment in a Shot Pouch could, if not should include what one might need for a Woods Walk, are there a set of rules or standards common to those matches on what you need to carry for them?

Gus

Woods walks should have a scenario defined. The Fall Woods Walk at Fort de Chartres specifies a three day scenario that requires more equipment than a woods walk scenario that covers a short hunt. The short hunt scenario would have what is needed for a one day hunt and you will need your shot pouch and a fire starting kit. Or at least a wad of tow that can catch a spark in your pan. Be sure your firelock is empty or your vent securely blocked. Better to have a fire starting kit in your pocket or shot pouch.

Yes, a knife or hawk should be carried for a woods walk but they are not required to have in or attached to the shooting pouch.

 

[S.Kenton]

I operate off of the premise of K.I.S.S... Keep it Simple Stupid....when I started out I had all sorts of stuff in a large leather bag.. Banging and clanking all around the woods, rondys and my backyard. Then one day an old timer,who had been watching me for several months, decided to invite me over to show me his great grandpas hunting pouch and horn. He wanted to share with me the contents his grandpa carried when he was out and about...the pouch was old leather, cracked and very frail in appearance. When he carefully opened it up he revealed an old bone or antler powder measure, some tow ( at least it resembled it) some old flints, some unused and some very used,( those were in a small leather bag within the pouch),Also in the pouch were some very large Roundballs.
After I saw what the shooters of the time packed in their pouches, I lightened my load considerably.
I now take my roundballs in a small ball bag,flints in my flint wallet, measure, and a small assortment of tools that fit into my aged altoid tin. I have a pouch and horn for each of my rifles and each are nearly identical in the contents..

 

[Artificer]

Artificer, at the big rendezvous like the Eastern sometimes they have woodswalks where you are to carry what you would need for a 3 day scout in hostile territory (or another scenario). So along the way there may be stations where a judge with a clip board may ask to see if you have several items with you. Points for having the items and negative points if you don't.

I ran a station at one event where the contestant had to sit down blindfolded and then change their flint or if they had a percussion they had to pull and replace the nipple. There were a lot of people that didn't have the necessary tools with them. They didn't have to actually install a new nipple or flint, but they had to have the tools handy and they needed to know where they were. Oh and by the way they had only 5 minutes to accomplish this task.

So most of this is not needed at Friendship in competition, but if you are halfway along the 18 shot woodswalk, and you need to fix something, it can be a long way back to camp to get a turn screw or a flint.

Thank you for the clarification. I always carried those tools at Northwest Trade Gun Aggregates, because there were times some rather typical maintenance had to be performed. As noted earlier, if you did not have something you needed when you walked over the designated line, you lost points or if you had a gun problem you could not fix - the match was over for you with a very small score.

However, I must say I was surprised when I read the following from your earlier post.

If you are on a woodswalk, its a good idea to add a spring vise. They always want to know if you can remove the mainspring.

Why is that a criteria? I am not following their reasoning. One did not/does not need to remove the mainspring to clean the inside of a lock.

During most of the period, springs had to be hand made and hand fitted to the lock. So to carry an extra mainspring and feather spring, one would have had to have them pre-made and pre-fitted to the lock. Now, personally, if I lived back in the period and went on Long Hunts or Long Scouts ”“ I would want such spare springs for my gun with me. However, as far as I know, there is almost no documentation that was done. Some expeditions and perhaps larger Long Hunter parties might have had a blacksmith with a traveling forge who could have made replacement springs, but that was the only way they would have access to replacements for broken springs. So I really don’t understand why Woods Walk Judges/Referee’s would ask for something that was almost never done in the period.

Though a spring vise is far better IMO for removing or replacing such springs, a tool one already has could have "U" shaped notches in it to go over each compressed spring to hold it compressed for disassembly/reassembly and probably would be far more likely for the average person to carry than a mainspring vise.

Gus

 

[Billnpatti]

What you need is a thing called a "flint wallet". They are made of leather and will hold spare flints as well as all of the basic tools one will need when afield. It will keep everything neatly together and ready when needed.

 

[Artificer]

Woods walks should have a scenario defined. The Fall Woods Walk at Fort de Chartres specifies a three day scenario that requires more equipment than a woods walk scenario that covers a short hunt. The short hunt scenario would have what is needed for a one day hunt and you will need your shot pouch and a fire starting kit. Or at least a wad of tow that can catch a spark in your pan. Be sure your firelock is empty or your vent securely blocked. Better to have a fire starting kit in your pocket or shot pouch.

Yes, a knife or hawk should be carried for a woods walk but they are not required to have in or attached to the shooting pouch.

OK, well then I guess it would be a good idea to read what they publish for a Woods Walk scenario for wherever one competes. A part of most Northwest Trade Gun matches used to be you had 10 seconds from the word "GO" to have flame with flint and steel. It was pass/fail for score. So in many respects, it sounds very much like those old matches.

Thank you for the clarification.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Dunno a woods walk from a mall walk, but I'm starting to think hunting is a whole nuther kettle of fish from what I'm reading here. Anyone carry haversacks on woods walks, or is there a rule about that too?

The beauty for me in keeping all the extras in a haversack rather than shooting bag is that it's always there on hunts. I have shooting/ball bags for each of my guns, but only one haversack that go with me on all hunts, no matter which rifle and shooting bag I carry.

Probably horsefeathers for competitors, but sensible for this hunter.

 

[wattlebuster]

Im with you Brownbear. All my stuff is for hunting. I never been on nary a woods walk cause nobody in my neck does such. I doubt they would let me go in my redneck clothes (Overalls). All my bags are set up for each gun depending on what I hunt with it. As far as a haversack YES one goes with me on every hunt I go on. Inside I put my drinks an lunch cause I hunt all day

 

[Artificer]

Well, that's the thing, so much depends on what one is doing with their gun.

Back in the PRE AWI period, there would have been as much variation as we have today. "Townies" may not have even had a Shot Pouch and just stuck items in their pockets or maybe in a Market Wallet. Those East of the mountains probably carried a minimalist shot pouch like many do today, because they hunted close to home and may not have spent a night outdoors after the day's hunt.

However, some early to mid 19th century Shot Pouches have everything including fishing line, hooks and a bobber, but stopped just short of the Kitchen Wash Bucket. I guess one might describe them as Period "Be Prepared" Items or maybe what we would call "survivalist items."

Gus

 

[Black Hand]

In my bag:
As to gun tools, I have a small pair of forged pliers with the end of one handle filed to fit my lock-bolts. I also carry a pick & whisk, a small funnel to fill my horn, balls, a leather bag with 4-5 flints, patches, a worm and a small bottle of bear oil. I also have my flint & striker, a folding knife, brass compass, bone whistle and a small bag of tow. My measure is tied to the horn and a cows-knee tied to the strap.

The bag is 6" wide and 7.5" tall. All the stuff I don't use for loading goes in first and the ball bag and patch tin are on top. There isn't any issue with these items going to the bottom because the bag isn't huge...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Part too is trying to get an idea of their thought-process, for some of us. We can't actually think as they did, but we can get an idea, perhaps, of their line of thinking.

So you live near the settlement which one day will become Hagerstown, MD. If you follow the Conococheague north, you will find Fort Loudon and along that path is also Baker's Fort. If you go south, you strike the Potamack River, and if you go upstream you find Fort Frederick, and if you go downstream you find Anti Eatam.

During the F&I Cherokee were as far north as Fort Frederick.

SO..., do you go out with a small horn, a few balls and patch, a knife, whisk, and brush, no 'hawk or fire starting kit, or food, OR do you carry enough to defend yourself, and to evade any persuers while you make your way to one of the forts in the area..., just in case?

Hey if it's safe..., why are there two major forts and two to three private fortified positions inside a day's walk of where you live?

Sure, TODAY we know there weren't any Indian raids into Maryland. Back then the fort in Bedford PA was considered a quiet place with friendly, local Indians (until Pontiac started his rebellion), and it was about 4 days ride or 6 days afoot away at an easy pace from Elizabeth Town (Hagerstown)..., which is pretty close for a fast moving group of raiders :shocked2:

LD

 

[Artificer]

Excellent point, LD

I do not in any way mean to criticize what anyone else carries in their Shot Pouch or on their person.

A person today does not need to worry about encountering hostile NA's or other hostile European Settlers when they go out in the woods to shoot or hunt. So a "minimalist" pouch and gear is just fine for most of their use, just as it probably was for many back in the settled areas during the 18th century.

A motor vehicle and a cell phone keeps one from having to carry some to many things that might/would otherwise have been necessary back in the period.

I carry what I think would have been more common in an area where it was not so settled and one could more likely run into danger or an emergency. Rarely need some of the items I carry, but when I need them, I have them.

Gus

 

[laufer]

turn screw, vent pick, folding knife, ball puller and cleaning jag, oil tube, 20" long leather strap, 2 spare flints, cleaning patches and two xl condoms.

 

[Artificer]

OK, I'll bite. :grin:

The condoms are used to put over the muzzle when hunting in rain/sleet/snow?

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Small party balloons are cheaper and more colorful.

 

[ptaska]

Amen, brother...That's exactly what I did, MSW. TC Albert's book is perfect for the newbie as he explains things very clearly in the step-by-step instructions. As for what goes in the bag, "less is more."

According to your logic, MSW, if I want to make another bag, it means I have to buy another fowler! PERFECT :thumbsup:

Yr Hmbl & Obdnt Srvnt,
-Longeye

 

[jon math]

I’ve been struggling with pouches for a long time. I have a fair collection of BP rifles, muskets, fowlers and shotguns. The desire to add a pistol or revolver has not come over me”¦yet.

What I’ve done is set up a drawstring bag of tools, cleaning patches, flints, caps and capper, pan charger, adjustable powder measure, bore brushes, tin of patch lube etc.

I have shot pouches for each rifle etc with only the balls, bullets or shot each uses, plus wads, patches and fixed powder measure and a short starter (if I use it) it uses. When I go out I grab a powder horn, the bag and the tool pouch may or may not travel with me. When it does go it resides in my pack or haversack, not in the shot pouch; but I do move the capper or pan charger to the shot pouch.