touch-hole liner cleaning

[Mike Brooks]

Well I have 5 white lightnings installed in 5 guns and none come out, theres no way they can.

Do you feel that the white lightnings make a big difference over standard liners?

Yes, when the chips are down, the white lightning is the one to have. Being a gamer of skeet and sporting clays and bird hunting with flint guns the change from standard liners to WL's was startling.

 

[rabjr]

Its the only one I've ever used so I can not comment on any other brand. I did have another great day at the range this morning with my custom .58. I sure have no complaints about White lightnings. :thumbsup:

 

[wdz]

I would never remove a vent liner even if I could. My shooter rifle was built by Mike Brooks with a non-removable liner. It has several thousand rounds through it in the past ten years and cleaning is not a problem. The vent is still in good shape also.

 

[roundball]

I would never remove a vent liner even if I could.

Not a loaded question, just an honest one...do you feel the same way about the removal of nipples from caplocks?

 

[wdz]

Roundball,

I haven't shot percussion in a number of years. I would not have a problem with the nipple being removed for cleaning, but not the drum (although the nipple is a handy place for a piece of plastic tube for cleaning). I feel that the threads in the wall of the barrel should be protected from wear.

DZ

 

[rich pierce]

Not a loaded question, just an honest one...do you feel the same way about the removal of nipples from caplocks?

I feel so busted. :surrender:

 

[roundball]

No problem with all of us having basically two different opinions...happens all the time with this, or leather vs. lead, blowing down a barrel or not, etc, etc, etc.

But this one is particularly puzzling to me bacause of the precise comparison of componets...ie: if I may use TC as an example because I have first hand knowledge of them...their nipples are stainless steel 1/4" x 28 tpi and so are their stainless steel vent liners.

The threaded seats for the nipples and vent liners are placed into the same kind of steel breechplugs...I can screw a nipple into the vent liner threads and visa versa.

On a technical basis...not the basis of whether someone does or does not remove a vent liner by choice...but on a technical basis why do some feel its OK to routinely remove and clean a nipple & its seat, but not a removable vent liner and its seat?
:hmm: :hmm:

And PS:
In terms of having a blowout from thread wear, the nipple sits directly in front of your brain pan...the vent liner is not, and, is further held in place by the lock being bolted across its face.

 

[rich pierce]

I surrender! :surrender: :surrender: :surrender:

 

[rabjr]

Seems to me having one screwed directly into the barrel and one screwed into a bolster is a big difference. Guess we need to know exactly what the pressure is on both the vent liner and nipple at the moment of firing. :hmm:

 

[Leatherbark]

I feel that removing the nipple from a modern traditional muzzleloader is ok if you dont tighten it like a lug nut on a car. Too tight will "Pull" the threads and start the process of wear.......Lubricate the threads and screw it in and barely snug it very lightly..............Bob

 

[Dane]

Like Mr Brooks, I put non-removable liners in all my guns.

Never had a reason to remove/clean one.

 

[tg]

we wouldn't have this discussion if people just drilled a plain hole in the barrel like the majority of originals had..and they seemed to work pretty well being done this way for a long time.

 

[Mulebrain]

I do not remove the vent for cleaning, I just don't see any justification.

Now a percussion, I always remove the nipple to clean out the drum area.

Now if the vent is burnt out, then it will get replaced.

 

[laufer]

when i've removed it the first time, i found justification and ever since i take it out, clean barrel and vent and put back.
it seems that the difference in the type and make of the liner is the reason to clean or not.
thanks all for the comments.

 

[feyx0006]

I have by no means a lengthy experience in this subject; however, my theoretical fear with not removing the liner would be microscopic amounts of corrosive particles being forced into the threads with each firing. While there is certainly some risk to the threads with unscrewing and replacing the liner at each cleaning, I would be more concerned about a chronic exposure to corrosive elements eroding the same threads. I point to our 35w bridge that collapsed a year ago here (many believe road salt applications over several years led to corrosion and then failure of inadequate gusset plates).

I do remove mine each time. I let it soak in my soapy pail for a few minutes to loosen the soot's grip. It then seems to back out quite easily. Without the soak, I think I would strip the screwdriver slot in just a few cleanings.

Maybe I'll sing a different tune in a few years. We'll see I guess

 

[roundball]

"...my theoretical fear with not removing the liner would be microscopic amounts of corrosive particles being forced into the threads with each firing.
While there is certainly some risk to the threads with unscrewing and replacing the liner at each cleaning, I would be more concerned about a chronic exposure to corrosive elements eroding the same threads. I do remove mine each time..."

That's been my philosophy...its routinely considered proper cleaning for a removable nipple therefore, there should be no problem doing the same thing for a removable vent liner.

I've accumulated a number of Flintlocks over the years and I routinely shoot the same two or three rifles weekend after weekend year round, averaging 40 range trips a year since 2001.

The vent liners are removed and reinstalled finger tight every time with a dab of NL1000 bore butter on the threads. No sign of wear or loosening issues with any liners or threaded seats. Based on that track record I see no issue with it what-so-ever and can't imagine having any issues with it in my lifetime.

I'm a firm believer of not putting any rifle up until its 100% showroom ready every time...in fact I'm one who also removes the frizzen every time to completely clean and relube the frizzen bridle, frizzen pivot area, and the frizzen pivot screw...my goal is to never put up a Flintlock until every hint of BP residue has been removed from every nook and cranny...different strokes I guess

 

[steelerzzz]

This is one of the few topics in that the most knowledgeable people on the site, have such a difference of opinion. I would have to say that after reading all the posts, nobody is wrong...."what ever makes your boat float"!

 

[paulvallandigham]

The reason for differences in opinion is because many Touch Hole Liners are not removeable. That is, the screw slot has been filed away in fitting the liner to the barrel. To remove them, you have to damage the vent hole with an " easy out " screw, which means you have to replace it with a new liner. Unless you can find one that uses an allen head wrench to put it in, or another brand that allows a slot to remain after fitting, you are looking at a lot of cost just to clean those threads.

I do agree with Roundball on cleaning those that are removeable. Either bore butter, or anti-seize compounds, or even plumber's tape, if it will fit, can keep the threads from being worn from removing the vent liner for cleaning each time you shoot.

I use a pipe cleaner to clean grit and residue out of the threads. If I even feel one bit of grinding when I replace a nipple, or liner, the item comes back out and I reclean the threads. :shocked2:

I use a toothbrush to clean the threads on nipples, and I have used a small brush with soap and water to clean the inside threads in the barrel or bolster. A drop of oil on both before they are screwed back together is all that is needed to protect the threads from wearing out.

I have a vent liner on my rifle that is not designed to be removed. I have not done so. But, I spend extra time with that flintlock pumping soap and water out that vent hole to make sure that any residue in the threads that are exposed are removed. :hmm:

If I find residue on my drying patches that suggest the threads of either the breechplug, or the liner are still Leeching " BP residue, I go back with soap and boiling water to get that remaining residue out. Then I cool the barrel using cold water to flush it of soap, before drying the barrel with patches. :grin:

On the occasional firearm I use that has a removeable vent liner, I use witness marks to tell me where to return the liner to position in the barrel, and I get the "gorilla" out of my shop when turning in those liners. That way, I don't bung up the screw slots, or crush the threads. :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have by no means a lengthy experience in this subject; however, my theoretical fear with not removing the liner would be microscopic amounts of corrosive particles being forced into the threads with each firing. While there is certainly some risk to the threads with unscrewing and replacing the liner at each cleaning, I would be more concerned about a chronic exposure to corrosive elements eroding the same threads. I point to our 35w bridge that collapsed a year ago here (many believe road salt applications over several years led to corrosion and then failure of inadequate gusset plates).

I do remove mine each time. I let it soak in my soapy pail for a few minutes to loosen the soot's grip. It then seems to back out quite easily. Without the soak, I think I would strip the screwdriver slot in just a few cleanings.

Maybe I'll sing a different tune in a few years. We'll see I guess

According to your theory, you should remove your breech plug for every cleaning too.

 

[tg]

"According to your theory, you should remove your breech plug for every cleaning too.'

You beat me to it Mike... but we better include the drum on guns equiped thusly, no foul no harm 99% of the top builders use non removable liners even if they are not white lightning, I gotta drift thataway, but to each their own, I still think a plain hole is the best answer, kinda like getting back to the basics.