Touch Hole Wear ?

[Zonie]

Although this topic is speaking about touch hole wear I was reading about something related last night.

In the book "COLONIAL FRONTIER GUNS", T. M. Milton there is a chapter on gunsmiths on the frontier and some of the repairs they made.

This book deals with guns and pieces that were dug up during archeological digs.

Anyway, the author says that he has come across several discarded lockplates that had been repaired by brazing. Nothing unusual about that but wait.
The part of the lock which had been brazed and in one case, repeatedly brazed was the pan.
The guns that had used these lockplates had been fired so often that the bottom of the pans had burned away and had been repaired with brazing alloy. In the photos you can clearly see the braze in the pan's bottom.

I'd say that any gun that had burned away the pan must have surly burned out its touch hole several times over. :hmm:

 

[Ray-Vigo]

I'd agree that some of these guns saw very extensive use, especially the military pieces I saw. It's likely those with the largest touch holes had wear play a role. But it doesn't look like anyone sought to fix them or add a bushing/liner. Given the emphasis on just getting shots off over pure consistency/accuracy, they probably were more concerned that the weapon fired than that it had a good grouping at 50 yards.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Remember that those locks were made of iron- not steel. The same with the barrels. I don't think you can have any doubt that TH wear was common with firearms made before the 19th century. There is a point, however, when a TH simply doesn't seem to enlarge any more, save for corrosion from neglect in maintenance, and storage. But, I would not want to be standing to the right of that shooter, within 25 feet, when he fired that Bess off!

I suspect that the cost of making and installing a TH liner- even when a gunsmith had the right tools-- would exceed the cost of simply buying a "new" barrel and installing it on the stock.

Those rural Gunsmiths were amazing in the things they could, and did do with firearms, BUT having the right drill and tap, and a drill plate to thread the plug the right size would be very expensive -almost one-time-use-only-- equipment for such a smith to own. You need FINE threads for a TH liner, simply because the wall of the barrel does not permit many threads. You see lots of coarse threads in barrels, principally in the breech plugs. But, the fine threads tend to appear in the locks, which were often made in Europe, still, and imported to the colonies for sale. :hmm:

This is the first I have read about pans being brazed to any extent. I have seen one such lock pictured somewhere, but no explanation as to when or who did the brazing. At the time, I thought I was seeing a Late 19th century repair of an old lock. Thanks for posting this information, Jim. :hatsoff:

 

[tg]

Yeah we are pretty much stuck in the "it's gotta be just so" mindset most of the time compared to the way folks in the past went about daily life in general.

 

[hanshi]

Just in case - when I pick the th - I use either a pick made of piano wire (thin) or the nice artistic brass one I own.

 

[Macon Due]

hanshi
I have been trying to make a touch hole pick from brass rod 1/16". I heat it red hot with propane torch but it always breaks when I bend it.....any ideas?
Thanks......Macon

 

[Zonie]

You should be able to bend brass without heating it.

If it breaks when it is cold bent it has been hardened by drawing it thru the die that sized it and it will need annealing.
Pounding brass or bronze with a hammer is another way of hardening it so if you've pounded it it may need annealing.

Brass/bronze are just the opposite of steel when it comes to annealing.
Heat it to a red heat and instantly quench it in water. Most brasses/bronzes will become very soft and ductile when this is done.

Then, as I mentioned, bend it while it is at room temperature.

 

[Macon Due]

Zonie
Thank you very much! I will try again this weekend.I had no clue that brass had to be treated opposite.So...then to reharden it I just reheat and let slow cool?
Macon

 

[Zonie]

No. Brass and bronze cannot be hardened by heat treating them.

They do "work harden" by using mechanical means like I mentioned. Pounding on them, bending them, drawing them thru a die to reduce their size. These things will all harden most brasses or bronzes.

They never do get hard like steel but they get "harder" and become more brittle.

 

[hanshi]

Zonie is correct about the brass. Heating with fast quenching is the way I use to anneal brass cases. It can get it pretty soft.

 

[Walks with fire]

I think they wear out quicker when heavy conicals are used than when roundballs are used. I would doubt I will shoot enough rounds to wear one for a very long time.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Macon Due, to add to the good advice from Zonie, there is no reason to re-harden the brass after it is bent and formed to your liking. The annealed brass pick will be quite stiff enough to serve the purpose.

 

[tg]

I would second the motion that brass/bronze does not need hardened. I usually use brassing rod and just file/grind a "flat" point to one end an a bit of a loop at the other with a little bend about a half inch from the point to avoid hitting the off side of the pan, this is probably not required it just seems to make hittting the hole a bit easier to me.

 

[hanshi]

I don't shoot conicals and can't speak for them. I shoot prb exclusively. In all my years of black powder shooting both cap and flint, I've yet to wear out a liner or nipple. These stainless liners seem to be very durable and the same thing can be said of stainless nipples. Prb shooting is very gun and shooter friendly. It is certainly possible to bugger up a touch hole by gouging with a steel pick but careful use of one will probably cause no damage at all. Soft brass is even better. I like stiff piano wire as it's smaller than the liner hole and doesn't wear against the liner.

 

[Macon Due]

Thank you all very much for the help! I'll make one this weekend. I'll sure be glad when it warms up a bit and I get my garage cleaned out and a bench built. I have several projects I want to start and a new 'mini' wood lathe to try out.
Thanks again,......Macon