touchhole height?

[matt denison]

"Step #1 would be - shoot it and if reliable put it out of my mind."

finally someone making some sense

My goodness, do you think the flash cares one rat butt hair if the touch hole is 1/32 or 1/16 higher than the epic sunset position? This gun may shoot just fine as is. My only concern would be if the frizzen cover covers the touch hole when closed. If it does then ignore it.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Damron,
This has been a pretty good discussion with a number of solutions. I like Stumpkiller's thought about trying the gun out first and see how it shoots. You have some more invasive solutions you can use if you find them necessary. My gut says that you may be OK with a higher than normal vent. Please keep us informed of your progress and whatever solution you use. We can all learn from your experience.
Regards,
Pletch
( Looks like Laffindog beat me to it.)

 

[Stubert]

Heat goes up, I would cone the outside if nothing else. The hole on my flinter is also a bit high and a little forward, but it works flawlessly.

 

[excess650]

Heat goes up, I would cone the outside if nothing else. The hole on my flinter is also a bit high and a little forward, but it works flawlessly.

That L&R looks a little rough to me. It appears that it will need some file work to get the pan/frizzen to seal. From that photo I KNOW that I don't want to spend the $ for a L&R replacement for my Dixie Tn Mtn Rifle.

I HAVE a flinter with similar liner as George's. I've already coned it a bit on the outside and drilled it out to 1/16") it still only fires pretty quickly with a full pan of powder , and this with a large Siler. Its NOT what I want. My plan is to have it replaced with a White Lightning. I HAVE a White Lightning with .055" in another rifle and its really quick! (Chambers Early Germanic lock)

The later type TC liners (installed with allen wrench) can work very well, but I think his barrel would need to be plugged and retrofitted to use that variety.

I suggest a White Lightning IF it isn't perceived as quick as percussion.

 

[damron]

thanks everybody.i will shoot it a bunch this weekend and report back.IF my knapped flint come in on time.if not TC agates i guess.FROWN

 

[roundball]

The later type TC liners (installed with allen wrench) can work very well, but I think his barrel would need to be plugged and retrofitted to use that variety.

Why would you say such a thing...he said it was a T/C Hawken...T/C's new 1/4x28 liners simply replace their old 1/4x28 liners.

PS:
White lightning liners used to be the only alternative years and years ago...but that hasn't been the case since the mid 90's.

Same with the L&R lock...hasn't been any reason to replace a T/C lock with an L&R since T/C came out with their redesigned/improved lock in the mid 90's.

 

[Rifleman1776]

When priming the pan make sure that you have some powder against the barrel. With a clean vent and prime close to the barrel, you should be OK. I don't recommend a vent this high, but think it will be workable

I disagree with Pletch on his reccomendation of placing primer. Not the first time I have countered his view on this point with my opinon (BTW: based on 40+ years of flint shooting). I suggest not piling up powder under the touchhole but rather make a thin line across the bottom of the pan. Flint ignition comes from a 'sorta' venturi effect, not just burning primer touching main charge.
Understand, Pletch has done experiments. I have to respect that even though I may not agree with his conclusions. However, every flint gun is different. Everytime we shoot a flinter it is a form of "experiment". You may end up having to pile primer under the touchhole for ignition. Dunno, only your testing will prove or disprove that.
I do agree, placement of that hole, IMHO, is quite high and adjustments may have to be made.
Good luck.

I hope I wasn't misunderstood here. Notice I said, "..that you have some powder against the barrel." I'm fine with your idea of a, "line across the bottom of the pan." It's important to have a good area of powder for the sparks to land. I assume that your line of powder across the pan includes powder near the barrel too.

When I prime a pan, there is powder throughout the pan. I do make sure that the area under the vent contains powder. Prime near the vent is important to quick ignition - I stand firm on that. The photo evidence on the link assures me of that conclusion. It's kind of like a bonfire. The closer you stand the hotter is is.

As far as the venturi effect - we probably will have to respectfully agree to disagree on that.

Regards,
Pletch

OK, we are OK on the line of powder. Yes, all the way across.
And, of course I never-ever jiggle my gun before shooting and shift the primer powder. :redface:
Please note: I did say a 'sorta' venturi effect. I know it is not a true venturi effect. It is called some fancy name that I just don't know.

 

[ebiggs1]

IF my knapped flint come in on time.if not TC agates.

This may not make for a good test. Get the new TC liner and forget it. It will work.
(Real hand knapped flints, of coarse!) :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

It is called some fancy name that I just don't know.

Might the word you are looking for be “bogus”? :hmm:

 

[pripley]

Ignition doesn't have much to do with Venturi's Tube which is an application of Bernoulli's work with the Equation of Continuity. The internally coned touch holes are using the focusing effect of a parabolic reflector to direct the ignition in the touch hole inward toward the main charge. For the advocates of a little priming powder: how big is your touch hole?
I built this test rig that has a tinder box where the breach would be. I place a cotton ball in the tinder box and I can evaluate the effect of the flash through the touch hole into the cotton. With the small factory touch hole, I needed more priming powder to increase the flash effect (depth and diameter of burn channel). I tried the "little priming powder is better" hypothysis without much success with a small touch hole.
I am following the advice of this forum and I am increasing the size of my touch holes in small steps until I get more reliable ignition.
In the course of testing different priming powder amounts, I turned off the lights and watched a flash go off in near complete darkness: the diameter of the fire ball is impressively larger than the size of the touch hole, liner, pan, and barrel!
Finding the right combination of touch hole size, shape, placement, and amount and type of priming powder is our quest. If the combination is not working, there are plenty of variables to adjust to achieve reliable ignition.
This is fun!

 

[ODG34]

Looks pretty normal for a GPR to me. Mine is worse than that and ignition is still spot on.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

. . . . .
I built this test rig that has a tinder box where the breach would be. I place a cotton ball in the tinder box and I can evaluate the effect of the flash through the touch hole into the cotton. With the small factory touch hole, I needed more priming powder to increase the flash effect (depth and diameter of burn channel). I tried the "little priming powder is better" hypothysis without much success with a small touch hole.

I'm glad to see another method of experimentation. Bigger hole, more prime, at least some prime against barrel - we're headed in the right direction.

I am following the advice of this forum and I am increasing the size of my touch holes in small steps until I get more reliable ignition.

This sounds good. I'm glad there are bits available between 1/16 and 5/64.

In the course of testing different priming powder amounts, I turned off the lights and watched a flash go off in near complete darkness: the diameter of the fire ball is impressively larger than the size of the touch hole, liner, pan, and barrel!

This is especially impressive with a camera.

Finding the right combination of touch hole size, shape, placement, and amount and type of priming powder is our quest. If the combination is not working, there are plenty of variables to adjust to achieve reliable ignition. . . .

Your last sentence says it all.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[ebiggs1]

Ignition doesn't have much to do with Venturi's Tube which is an application of Bernoulli's work with the Equation of Continuity. The internally coned touch holes are using the focusing effect of a parabolic reflector to direct the ignition in the touch hole inward toward the main charge.

I am sticking with "bogus"!

 

[ebiggs1]

In the course of testing different priming powder amounts, I turned off the lights and watched a flash go off in near complete darkness: the diameter of the fire ball is impressively larger than the size of the touch hole, liner, pan, and barrel!

This is especially impressive with a camera.

... and really tale telling! The eye can be tricked but photos that can be studied are preferred. :thumbsup:

 

[pripley]

Check out these You Tube clips: Siler Lock Ignition Slow Motion

Flintlock Rifle Slow Motion

 

[jimshaler]

I think TC is referring to firing a Firestorm with pellets, not black powder.