Tracks Flintlock Kit

[TraderMike]

Has anyone ever build a Tracks kit? They are pricey and I was wondering if there worth the money.
I was going to build the Hawken Fullstock Plains Rifle in .50 cal with 1-70" twist.
Any opinions?
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partList.aspx?catID=13&subID=77&styleID=297

 

[Haggis]

There's nothing wrong with TOW kits, but you can save yourself a heap of money if you order some 2 1/2" or 3" X 10" X 60" walnut or maple plank and cut out your own stock patterns.

Look close before you buy and just get what you need, and make what you can. If you can build a TOW kit, you don't need a kit you just need a pattern and the specialty parts: barrel, lock, breech plug, set triggers, and maybe butt plate.

 

[Zonie]

What Haggis says is true, but for a person who hasn't built a custom rifle little things like drilling the ramrod hole can be a real challenge.
It might be worth a few bucks to the novice to have that drilled and it doesn't hurt to have them cut the barrel channel. For someone unfamilure with lock placement (relateive to the barrel) it doesn't hurt to have that roughed in too.
All of the semi-finished stocks I've built from had enough wood on them to still require wood removal to take it from a klunky course look to a nice finished shape.
Sooooo...Yes some of this costs money. What you have to do is decide how much you know about these things balanced aginst how much do you want to pay.

Before I bought from TOW, I would at least get a catalog ($3.00) from Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply and see if they have anything of interest. Although TOW has a larger selection of styles, I think its prices are a little higher.
Muzzleloaders Builders Supply, Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders, also offer "kits" and are worth lookin into.

Edit: For more of my thoughts on these kits see
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000060

Edit 2: I don't know what TOW is asking but the Pecatonica catalog I just recieved today says their Full Stock Hawken kit in Flint is $426.70 plus wood. Straight#1 maple = $80, #2 maple =$100. #3 maple =$140, Walnut or Cherry = $135.

 

I just began Track's Jaeger rifle kit a few days ago and I like it. So far I have inlet the lock (to allow free movement of the internal parts)the barrel, the trigger plate and the butt plate(tough). These parts are pre-inlet but ther is quite a bit of fitting to do though nothing unpleasant.I have to tap holes for the tang screw and lock screws and I've never done that before so I hope I don't screw it up, pun intended. My only prior experience was a GPR kit and there is NO comparison. I don't have the desire to hack a stock out of a plank or file threads on forged screws but this Track kit gives me the feeling of old time gunbuilding and the book they recommend buying with their kit ,Recreating the American Longrifle, is a big help. I love the .62 swamped barrel!

 

[Darkhorse]

The Track kits are about as good as any other out there. I have one in Isacc Haines and am well satisfied with it.
But, I would definitely give Pecacontica a look. There price will be a little better for basically the same components. Plus, Track gets some of their stocks from Pecacontica then tacks on a little extra. In fact, most kit makers obtain most parts such as buttplates, trigger guards, etc. from the same sources.
The only problem I had with ordering from Pecacontica was the delivery time. When asked, they stated 4 to 6 weeks. Of course this was for a Late Lancaster with a swamped barrel and getting the barrel may have been a factor. The straight barrel of the Hawken may be easier to get, or they may have one in stock.
Whoever you decide on be sure and find out how long it will take to supply you your parts. The time frame varys considerably from buisness to buisness.
This type kit is not really a kit, it is a component set and there is considerable skilled work to be done. Don't let that daunt you, just be paitent and realize it won't fall together and to do a real good job you may have 100 hours plus in the finished project.
Most makers say you can do all with a hand drill. You probaly could. But with the price being paid and the time involved, a small investment into a small drill press is money very well spent.
Here is another tip worth remembering. When inletting your barrel you will use some kind of marker, like inletting black. Concentrate on the bottom 3 flats and don't worry so much about the sides. They will give a false reading and cause you to take out too much wood.

 

[Birddog6]

It all boils down to your skill level. If you are a guy that can look at any plan of anything & build it, buy bare parts & build it. If you are the average person wanting to build it, buy the kit. As for them being pricey , you get what you pay for. Tracks kit will be all quality stuff & no junk & it will fit & work. Chambers kits are pricey too but they are top notch parts & all quality.

Several times I have seen people buy parts from here & there & allot os sources & build a rifle, usually they end up within $50-100. of the cost of the kit, 5 times the hassle & lots of times the parts are inferior & don't fit or look right or poor castings & etc. To me that $50 savings is not worth the hassle & have seen the shipping & returns of the poor parts exceed the saving.

Also the quality of the wood you use means allot to me on a rifle. To some it is nothing to me it is everything. If I am going to put lots of time & work into it I want the best wood I can find & that will add a $100-200. to it usually. I have seen Hundreds of guns built & afterwards the builder tell me the only thing he would have done differently now is "Use Better Wood".

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Skinning Knives

 

[TraderMike]

Thanks for everyones help. I have built a T/C Hawken kit and a CVA kit about 10 years ago. These kits were more of an assembly process then a building process. I believe my next step is to build a rifle from a kit and see how that goes.

I was a tool and die maker for 15 years so I know about steels, milling, tapping, heat treating etc. If the Tracks kit goes well, I may consider building a rifle from (semi)scratch.

I'm still a little confused about the grade of wood to use. I was considering using the cheaper grade of maple due to the fact that I may screw it up or that it will get scratched as I plan to use this rifle for hunting. Do you still think I should go with a better grade of maple? I really like the tiger stripe grade 1 maple, but the wood alone was $280.00. That would bring my kit up to about $650.00 and thats pricey for me but possible.
What do you think?

 

[tg]

The choice in grade of wood can make a difference in the final product, one consideration is whether you are going for a PC gun of not, some guns were made with fancy maple some were not, a little research will steer you in the right direction if this matters, there are many beautiful NW guns and French fusils around with supper fine maple stocks but you would be hard pressed to fine an example of an original done as such, even as a restock most likely a utilitarian gun would be plain maple.

 

[Haggis]

About 20 years ago I was squirrel hunting with my brother in Kentucky's, Red River Gorge; some of the roughest country on God's good Earth. We worked our way several miles out a ridge and he noticed that we had come in nearly a full circle. I asked how he knew that and he said he could see my truck from where he stood. I said, let's look for a way down off this ridge, but there was no gap or pass, just sheer walls.

He found a place where a Cedar tree grew up near the cliff and said he was going to drop his rifle down on some Mountain Laurel and then climb down the Cedar tree; which he did.

I was carrying a fine Pennsylvania rifle with a .40 Douglas barrel, premium plus yadda yadda stock, fancy scroll work, and the list goes on. No way I was going to do the same as he did. Soooo..., many miles later I got to the truck and determined in my own mind to confine my hunting rifles and guns to utility pieces. I've done that til this day. Beauty looks good around the camp, but do I serve the weapon or the weapon serve me? In the above scenario, I was reduced to the stature of rifle valet.

It is something to think about when selecting stock material.

 

[djnye]

rather than 'plain' i might use the term 'straight grain'. in my experience, highly figured maple with lots of curl is somewhat more brittle and vulnerable to breakage in smaller cross sections, like the foreends of longrifles. i prefer modest curl in the butt half to enhance the beauty and straighter grain in the foreend. i find very tight, even curl the length of the stock to be visually somewhat 'disturbing', though i am sure some folks would refer to it as 'striking'.

take care, daniel

 

[Deadeye]

While there is definately something to what Haggis says I'll still go with Birddog. If you get the cheaper wood there will come a time you'll wish you had got the better wood. I like TOW's kits, have done several and am working on one now, an Issac Haines. I built my .75 Hawken on the Jim Bridger kit with a barrel from Getz.
Deadeye

 

[Darkhorse]

I'll echo a couple of things Birddog said. I did a lot of research and part of that was pricing individual parts from suppliers like Muzzleloaders builders supply. When all the figures were added up, there was not enough savings to be concerned about. Then add the extra hassle and the price of the kits began to look a lot better.
Originally I was going to get a plain maple stock as my guns see hard use and little wall hanging. But you can't do that over again so your first choice is one you live with. I knew I would be unhappy with a lesser grade of wood so I opted for the fancy stuff. It should look good and give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Also, remember who for and why you are making the gun. Some want nothing but 100% tradition and frown on any kind of glass bedding etc.
I consider myself more the farmer type who climbs off his mule at the gunshop and wants a rifle built that is the best possible for his purpose. I don't need lots of carving and engraving to make the gun work right.
I want a little glass bedding right at the breech to help absorb recoil (Isacc Haines may roll over in his grave) though a lot of the top builders of today are horrified at this.
I could have measured my barrel lugs, then filed them before inletting to be sure they didn't break out into the ramrod channel. But instead I purposely worked a smooth inlet right through. My reason was not too save time but to be sure water had a place to go when the rifle was used in the rain.
Some of these things should be thought out in advance and applied as you stock your rifle. In the end the finished product must please the owner and serve its purpose as good as possible.

At this time I have no desire to build from a blank. The precarved stocks suit me fine. I want as good a weapon as possible without paying the big bucks of having one built. Besides you will be a little more tuned in with and familiar with your rifle when it is finished. I plan on building at least 3 more, a .36 or .40 mountain type for Turkeys and Squirrels, a .54 Fullstock Hawken and one for my son of whatever type he wants.
Maybe, just maybe, after I retire and get the time, I might try one from scratch. We will see.

 

[TraderMike]

Thanks again....you have given me a lot to think about regarding the wood stock.
I have one more question regarding barrels. I want to build a .50 cal. and my choices are the standard 1" octagon 36" with a 1-70" twist thats 6.30lbs and costs $95.00 or a Goodoien match grade .50 cal with 35" barrel for $255.00.
Keeping in mind I will be useing this rifle for hunting purposes I think the standard grade would do the trick just fine.
Is my assessmant correct?

 

[Haggis]

A man can and needs to listen to those who have traveled a variety of trails, but in the end each man must choose his own path based on his own necessities and inclinations. I never fault a man for making his own choices as in the end, he not I, will be the one who must live with them.

Listen to everyone, do what gives you the most satisfaction.

 

[Flintshooter in Indiana]

I built a Track fullstock Hawken kit years ago and it went just fine. You'll need to enlarge here and there to get a good fit, but nothing to trying. As far as I'm concerned, I'd take the cheaper barrel. It'll probably be a Green Mountain, which are good barrels. No need for a match grade barrel for a huntin' gun, I wouldn't think

 

[tommy b]

As far as the quality of wood goes, my boy has a saying (at least that's where I heard it): "Buy the better quality and cry only once."

 

[Birddog6]

As for the Goodoien barrel vs. the Green Mtn. in a straight barrel ? For hunting I would go with a Green Mountain or a Rice barrel. For match & target you won't beat the Goodoien. I have owned lots of barrels & have yet to match the accuracy of the Goodoien right off the bat. But all of them will most likely shoot more accurately than you can hold it.

As for the Quality of wood, I always like to use the best I can afford. Years ago that was plain wood & every single one I built, after it was done I would say, "Man, I that looks nice but I sure wish I had beteer wood". Maybe it is just me, I dunno. I have never regretted using a quality piece of wood but have many times wished I had went the extra $100. for a better piece.

You take a real nice rifle & build it with plain wood & you put a price on it and for a easy figure we will price it at $ 1000.

You take the same gun & put an exxtra $100 to 150 in it on the WOOD & the same gun will sell for $ 1500 easily if not more just because of the wood. Nuthin beats the natural beauty of a 3D striped maple stock or the crotchwood burl of a walnut stock. You cannot fake it or duplicate it, natures beauty cannot be reproduced by man.

Forget the Goodioen barrel & go for the Best wod you can find.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Knives

 

[tg]

Out of curiosity has anyone looked into what kind of wood was common or used/not used on the Hawken originals? I have never really looked into these guns very closely.

 

[Haggis]

The venerable John D. Baird wit a book on Hawkens, I've not read it, but I take he had/has some knowledge on the subject.

 

[Zonie]

I have read Bairds books but am too lazy to read them again tonite so the best I can do is to say that in Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms he says (about plains rifles in general) they had "Plain walnut or maple stocks".
This makes sense because the Mountain Men wanted a quality firearm mounted in a strong durable stock. Fancy rated down there with silver spoons and high button shoes when important things like their lives were at stake.
As far as a "kit" is concerned, if PC is driving the features on the gun your going to build buy the least expensive Walnut or Maple. If you like the idea of showing others your work and hearing comments like "Holy cripes! Look at that thing!!" "You built this?????????" then get the fancy stuff.
I've found that #3 maple has lots of "figure" without breaking the bank.