Trade Pistol?

[Walkabout]

Was there ever a pistol version of the Northwest Trade Gun? Thanks

 

[Sam squanch]

The regular trade long gun was cut down to be a pistol at times. I think some sort of pistol was offered for the Indian trade. Not sure.

 

[leadhoarder]

I would imagine that the natives preferred a hawk or a good blade for close in work.

 

[Sam squanch]

I would think they would see them as a status symbol, maybe chiefs would carry them? And it would be easier if an attack happened at night in a village, faster to get a pistol into action than a long musket. Just like today.

 

[Mowich]

I posted these pictures in "Pistols". This is my version of an Indian Pistol. The pistol would be made from a Northwest gun.
The idea to build one came from a picture of an original in Charles Hansons book The Northwest Gun page 64.

 

[plmeek]

Was there ever a pistol version of the Northwest Trade Gun? Thanks

The Northwest Trade Gun, and possibly the Type D English Pattern Trade Rifle, are unique in that they have no counterpart in civilian guns. The NW Trade Gun, and likely the Type D rifle, were developed specifically to trade to Indians during the fur trade.

Other guns traded to the Indians, such as the Type G, are inexpensive versions of civilian guns. There are several other examples including the French guns of Type C, Type D, fusil de chasse, and the Buccaneer as well as the English version often called a "club butt" gun. By the time of the Revolutionary War, and probably earlier, inexpensive rifles of the Lancaster school were being traded to Indians. The British government contracted with Wilson and other English gunmakers to make copies of American longrifles of the Lancaster school to give to their Indian allies during the Rev War. George Shumway has studied these English Pattern Trade Rifles and classified them as Types A, B, C, and D.

During the War of 1812, the British government contracted with 16 English gunmakers for firearms of various types for Indians allied with the British. De Witt Bailey was able to locate these contracts in the archives and tabulate the types and numbers. His figure are:

• Common guns: 12,494
• Chief's guns: 10,118
• Rifles: 1,538
• Pistols: 2,636

"Common guns" was the British Ordnance term for Northwest Trade Guns. The Chief's guns were inexpensive English fowling pieces with specific inlays and engraving. The rifles were modified versions of the earlier British Lancaster pattern rifles that have a more "military" look but are lighter and slimmer than any British musket or rifle of the day. These are what George Shumway called Type D English Pattern Trade Rifles. The pistols were simple utilitarian pistols of a style that dates back to as early as 1730 in England. This style of pistol saw use by civilians and the military as well as the fur trade. The basic pattern of the stock was the same with higher quality locks and barrels on the more expensive pistols and fine silver mounts on the most expensive.

All the smooth bore guns, rifles, and pistols made for the Indians under the 1813 Contracts were marked with British Ordnance proof marks, the makers name on the lock and the crown with a broad arrow on the lock. Knowing who those 16 contractors were from De Witt Baily's research, it is easy to identify those arms made for the 1813 contracts, including the pistols intend for the Indian allies.

Below is a sample of one of the 1813 Contract Indian Pistols made by Ketland, Walker & Co. This firm made 260 pistols under the 1813 Contract.

This next pistol is a military pistol made by W. Ketland & Co. to show the similarities between the it and the 1813 Contract Pistol above. Note that the two pistols have the same stock pattern, similar butt caps on the grip, round barrels, and the same pattern of side plate. They differ slightly in the trigger guard and the military pistol has an entry pipe while the Indian pistol does not. The military pistol has a steel ramrod while the Indian pistol has a wooden ramrod. This military pistol has a better quality lock with a pan/frizzen bridle and a roller on the frizzen spring. We can't see the internals on the two locks, but I'm sure the military pistol has better quality and better finished internal parts. Even though the military pistol is not one of the high end "officer's pistols" with silver mounts, it is a better grade than the 1813 Contract Indian Pistol. It is difficult to put an exact date on this pistol since the firm of W. KETLAND & Co. operated from 1800 to 1831. The lock plate shape with the small *** on the tail suggests it could have been made in the first decade or so of the 1800s.

Next is a civilian trade pistol made by Ketland & Co. This pistol dates to the 1790s. The quality of this pistol is about the same as the 1813 Contract Indian Pistols. Private fur companies could have and likely did acquire similar pistols to trade with the Indians as well as outfit their personnel and even sell to traders and trappers.

This Ketland & Co. trade pistol has no pan bridle same as the 1813 Contract pistol.

To answer the original question, technically, no there was not a pistol version of the Northwest Trade Gun. There was no pistol that we know of that was traded to the Indians that had no counterpart in civilian arms. There was no pistol traded to the Indians in significant numbers that had a dragon side plate.

There are a number of references in period documents of pistols being ordered by or made for fur trade companies, but there is little or no detail description of these pistols to give us a good idea of what they looked like. These 1813 Contract Pistols are about the only identifiable specimens we know that were intended for Indians.

The British government didn't randomly select a pistol as the pattern for the 1813 Contract Pistols. They would have had input from British officials in Canada as to the style the Indians were familiar with and preferred. It follows that this pattern of pistol had been traded with Indians by the fur companies before the War of 1812.

 

[plmeek]

The software running this forum limits the number of photos in a single post to 10. I had a couple of other pistols I wanted to share pictures of. Sorry for taking so long in adding this additional post.

This next pistol is another example of a civilian trade pistol. Again, it is an inexpensive pistol and is another good example of the type that was likely traded to Indians as well as white traders and trappers.

This pistol was made by John Sharpe who advertised in the Birmingham business directories from 1811 to 1831. It has post-1813 Birmingham proof marks. All the classic features on the trade pistol are there. It has an eared butt cap with a screw through the bottom, brass trigger guard, lower entry pipe and one upper pipe, and a thumb piece.

The side plate is a military style “S” shape with a simple snow flake and border line engraving. The barrel is pinned to the walnut full stock, and the pistol has no muzzle cap. It is also similar to the side plate on the 1813 Contract Indian Pistols.

The lock is a later style. The tail of the lock plate is almost rounded then comes to a point or ***. The cock is a not-so-elegant attempt at a “breasted” cock. These characteristics are consistent with an early 19th century lock. Even though bridled frizzens were common on better locks by this time, the unbridled frizzen and the minimal line engraving around the lock plate and cock reflect the effort to keep the costs to a minimum on this pistol.

Considering the proof marks, the dates that Sharpe was in business, and the style of cock, this pistol was likely made in the 1820’s.

The Sharpe trade pistol (bottom) is a bit bulkier than the Ketland & Co. pistol (top) as can be seen in the photo below with the two pistols side-by-side. The grip and the forearm on the Sharpe pistol are slightly larger.

The different lock styles are readily apparent in this photo.

These pistols may have been made 30-40 years apart, but they follow the same pattern. They differ only in minor details and the age/style of lock.

I mentioned in my previous post that the 1813 Contract Indian Pistols follow a pattern or style that dates back to as early as 1730 in England. Below is an example of an early version of this pattern of pistol. This pair of pistols were made by a Griffin of Bond Street, London.

This is an illustration from Norman Dixon's Georgian Pistols - The Art and Craft of the Flintlock Pistol, 1715-1840. page 40.

The author describes the pistols as:

Dixon dates this pair of pistols to circa 1745. Even though he gave a date range for this pattern of pistol from 1730 to 1780, I believe he had in mind higher end pistols since this is the subject of his book.

Obviously from the examples I've shown from the lower end market for the civilian trade and the fur trade, this pattern of pistol continued to be made in the 1820s and likely into the 1840s.


If anyone is interested, Muzzleloader Builder's Supply offers in kit form a copy of these trade pistols in several configurations. This is the brass mounted, walnut stock version -- KET-KIT-WB - Ketland Pistol Kit walnut/Brass.

 

[rusticbob]

Thanks Phil, very interesting. Love the pictures