Traditional gun stock finish

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Lacquer is boiled bugs. Varnish is a base oil,(tung oil, linseed oil), etc., with added dryers.
BLO IS a year long finish. One coat a week for a month, one coat a month for a year, one coat a year after that.
Does anyone believe that a period gunsmith would EVER use a finish that took that long?
I can do a multiple coat finish in under a week. With varnish!
I think it's funny then, that the USMC used and treated stocks with BLO or some variation of for better than 100 years. One concoction was "Gunny Paste" 1/3 BLO, 1/3 Turpintine, 1/3 Beeswax, then again, majority of the time just plain old BLO was used. I never heard any reports of it never drying as long as it was rubbed in and buffed, otherwise, the rifles would have looked like sugar cookies. Who knows, maybe they were issued GI approved pixie dust to mix in.
 
I was a chemist for an art material company in the 70's and we made true "copal varnish" for artists' use. This was made, not with manila copal which is a soft copal resin, but with "congo copal" which is the fossilized sap of an of an African tree. (no longer available to my knowledge). That copal is a hard copal resin, and only soluble in oil if heated to 640 deg. F and held there until it finishes reacting. Hot "stand oil" (polymerized linseed oil) is then added and after cooling to 250 deg. F, is thinned with solvent. This makes a very hard and tough varnish which is impervious to solvents, wear and most other things. This formula is very old and may well have been used on musical instruments, "back in the day." Probably much too expensive to use on firearms, except possibly very expensive high end European arms. I say "possibly" because I have no way of knowing if it was, but it would have been very durable for that use.
 
I think it's funny then, that the USMC used and treated stocks with BLO or some variation of for better than 100 years. One concoction was "Gunny Paste" 1/3 BLO, 1/3 Turpintine, 1/3 Beeswax, then again, majority of the time just plain old BLO was used. I never heard any reports of it never drying as long as it was rubbed in and buffed, otherwise, the rifles would have looked like sugar cookies. Who knows, maybe they were issued GI approved pixie dust to mix in.
Hi Richard,

Technically the only rifle stocks one could get away with using "Gunny Paste" on was NM rifle stocks. If one used Gunny Paste on their individual issued standard rifle and got caught with it at an inspection, it was going to cost one a fine and maybe a stripe, especially prior to WWII. Yes, I remember Inspectors SMELLING stocks that looked "too good" and if they caught a whiff of turpentine, one was in deep do do.

The ONLY oils authorized for Marines, Soldiers and Sailors to use on their rifle stocks were Raw Linseed Oil and Boiled linseed oil. Same thing on wood shotgun stocks and forearms and that was right up until I retired in 1997.

I will never forget sitting on my bucket in the sun and rubbing BLO into my M14 stock in Boot Camp on almost every Sunday in Boot Camp in 1971, except while we were at the rifle range. Had to get those stocks looking good for Final Inspection.

However, the Old Salts used to tell us how they used Lin Speed (BLO) Oil from the time it was publicly sold in small jars since the late 1950's, even though it was illegal to do it. There was no turpentine smell and since it was made from linseed oil, it smelled correct. It did actually dry within a few hours to overnight at most, so one could build up a lot of coats in two to three weeks.

WTBN at Quantico was still issuing M14's when I got there in Nov 1973. We used Tru Oil on NM rifle stocks, but that was strictly forbidden for standard M14's. So........ what we did was smooth the stocks, build up layers of Tru Oil, and a couple of days before an inspection, we put a coat of Lin Speed on the stocks. That way when an Inspector asked, we could truthfully say we hand rubbed BLO into our stocks. Wink.

When I became the RTE Armorer and NCOIC of the Edson Range Armory/Limited 4th echelon Repair Facility, the stocks and forearms on our few shotguns looked pretty dinged up. My OIC asked me how we could make them better? With a wink, I said I would do it myself when behind the closed door of my RTE Armory inside the Armory. Yes, I used Lin Speed, BUT not in front of anyone else. During our Annual Inspection, the Inspecting Officer noticed how good they looked and he was informed I had done it. Now, he strongly suspected I used Lin Speed or some other illegal finish, but couldn't prove it by the look or smell. I kept telling him I rubbed BLO into the stocks and forearms. Finally he said, "OK, SHOW me what you used!" I informed him I didn't have any in the Armory, as I wasn't actually using it. He got an evil grin on his face until I continued. I said, "Sir, you surely know that BLO is a flammable substance and we are not allowed to store it inside the Armory when not in use. However, the unfinished amount is properly stored out in the Paint Locker." Well, the Inspecting Officer then said, "OK, let's go out to the paint locker." Once there I showed him a half full quart can of BLO and he could no longer argue. After he finished the Inspection and left, my OIC asked me why he had me take him to the paint locker. When I told him about the half can of BLO there, he said, "But we never ordered any BLO." I grinned and said I had placed my own can there a couple days earlier, but the Inspector didn't know that. My OIC laughed heartily at that.

Now to get back on topic for some of the questions of using Raw or Boiled Linseed Oil, what MOST folks in the Armed Forces didn't know was WHY we were only allowed to use Raw or Boiled Linseed Oil. It WASN'T to make the stocks shiny for inspection and especially not to have a shiny stock in combat, which might give one away to an enemy. The real reason to use Raw or Boiled Linseed Oil was so the stocks would not dry out too much and check crack, which made the stocks unserviceable. It was also meant to partially block salt water as much as possible from getting into the pores of the stock. Once your wood stock DID get semi or fully immersed in salt water, you were expected to wash the wood well in clean regular water. Once you let the stock dry overnight, then you were expected to put new coats of Raw or Boiled Linseed Oil on the wood as soon as possible.

Gus
 
I was a chemist for an art material company in the 70's and we made true "copal varnish" for artists' use. This was made, not with manila copal which is a soft copal resin, but with "congo copal" which is the fossilized sap of an of an African tree. (no longer available to my knowledge). That copal is a hard copal resin, and only soluble in oil if heated to 640 deg. F and held there until it finishes reacting. Hot "stand oil" (polymerized linseed oil) is then added and after cooling to 250 deg. F, is thinned with solvent. This makes a very hard and tough varnish which is impervious to solvents, wear and most other things. This formula is very old and may well have been used on musical instruments, "back in the day." Probably much too expensive to use on firearms, except possibly very expensive high end European arms. I say "possibly" because I have no way of knowing if it was, but it would have been very durable for that use.
I've head this rumor many years ago, that the Stradivarius stringed instruments were very well made, and so were many others, but that his varnish was something special and helped give his instruments their great sounding qualities, for the time period when they were made. I wonder how far back the use of copal resin goes?

LD
 
Gus:

Your the pro in my book, and I sincerely appreciate all the help and guidance you gave me regarding military leather and helping me find the correct hardware for my adventure. I will never forget, back about '89', at Ransberger's in Fallbrook, CA, you walked in while I was being raked over the coals by Dave regarding what was right or wrong with my craft, and that it would never sell.

I guess I had some bad influences over the years regarding Turpentine. In 1978, as a young Marine PFC, I was assigned to Basic MP School at Ft Mac, and they were wrapping coat hangers around cans of Johnson's Paste Wax, setting it ablaze till it melted, at which time it was snuffed out and a small amount of Turpentine was added. Then we dribbled it on the floorboards of the old WWII barracks. They had one troop smearing it with a dust mop while being chased by a huge power buffing machine about the size of a roto-tiller. It really made the old floorboards shine. Then I was assigned to the MP Station at New River, NC, where the old Gunny who was the Provost Sgt, instructed us on the proper way to get the best spit shine on our boots, by taking a can of Lincoln Boot Wax, lighting it to melt it, snuff it out, then again, adding a little Turpentine. I was rapidly discovering that there was a pattern here, fire followed by Turpentine. The Gunny also had us basically using his form of Gunny Paste on our shotgun wood as well, particularly prior to inspection or guard mount. Then along comes Major Dick Culver, with his Culver's Magic Paste, which was basically the same concoction, but to hear him tell it, you would think he invented it. I do miss the old Major though, what a story teller, he could recite the manual of arms and you would think it was Shakespeare.
 
Loyalist Dave: I have some old books on natural resins. I'll see what I can find on the historical aspects of copal.
 
I built a CVA Ky pistol years ago and used tung oil... Question is ....is it an appropriate finish for a stock??? I have been thinking about building a flint and have been reading the forums refinishes...
 
Loyalist Dave: A preliminary check found a treatise on copal and other varnishes by Watin dated 1772. This is reputed to have been published to correct misinformation published by a Jesuit named Bonnani in 1733. So it goes back a ways.
 
I built a CVA Ky pistol years ago and used tung oil... Question is ....is it an appropriate finish for a stock??? I have been thinking about building a flint and have been reading the forums refinishes...
Hi 'dog,

YES, PURE Tung Oil as it is known today (it used to be called China Oil) is actually a BETTER Oil finish than Raw or Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO). (Don't use the garbage they sell as "Tung Oil Finish.") Polymerized Tung Oil is even better and dries faster.

None other than the U.S. Armory at Springfield, MA found this out in 1939 after using various types of BLO for 144 years up to that time. Springfield got reports back from the field that during sustained rapid firing, M1 (Garand) Rifles caught fire. (Not something you want happening to your rifle in combat, eh?) What caused it was the thinnest part of the wood rear handguard is directly over the breech of the barrel, which is also where barrels heat up the most. The heat ignited the BLO on the underside of the rear handguard. Springfield switched to using "China Oil" on the wood and it stopped happening. Unfortunately because of WWII, Springfield Armory could not import enough China/Tung Oil. So they were forced to switch back to BLO in 1942, BUT they also added chemicals to act as a fire retardant in the BLO.

Our own dave_person highly recommends Sutherland Welles polymerized tung oil that he uses extensively.
https://www.sutherlandwelles.com/exterior-products
Gus
 
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Well, this appears to be one of those topics. Everyone has his own opinions, bias’s, uses, etc.

I’ve built over 100 guns, and experimented with many finishes.
I‘m not a chemist, or alchemist, but I know what works for me. Your mileage may vary.
I will watch from the bleachers from here.
 
Slide,
Not true. BLO is just that boiled linseed oil. Japan dryer is a hardener.
Read EK’s post, and see what violin varnish means.
Flint, I did. And if you read around a bit, you'll find that commercial BLO today is not boiled. Yes, artisans do still kettle boil linseed oil, but BLO in the paint store is raw linseed oil with driers added. Nowadays the driers are cobalt soaps or naphthenates, since the lead driers have been pulled due to their toxicity. There are heat bodied drying oils of various sorts, stand oil being thermally polymerization linseed oil, and blown oils that are heated and mixed with air to partially pre-oxidize them.Reading about bodied oils a few weeks ago, I found links to the patent back in the '30s of bodying tung oil by premixing it with petroleum solvents which allows it to be heated and polymerization, then the solvents are vacuum extracted leaving thick, fast drying oil similar to stand oil. Without the solvent, tung oil turns into a solid rubbery substance when heated. Look at the ingredients on a can of Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil. Itists 3 ingredients. In order, petroleum naphtha, "proprietary modified oil," and linseed oil. I think they're using heat polymerized tung oil with the solvent still in it, and adding some linseed oil. It's all online if you're curious and have a few hours to browse around. Yes, that heat bodied oil effectively is a varnish that quickly dries to a hard enough surface to use as a floor finish.
 
I am not sure I understand all the issues here? People have been using BLO in various forms for zillions of years to finish gunstocks. It works fine, is easy to come by, easy to use, easy to touch up. What is the big deal? Personally I have used True Oil, BLO combos and also Laurel Mountain Permalyn, which works very well! They all work fine if you take your time & follow directions. Personally, I do not want to use any kind of finish that requires Merlin the magician to make, could destroy my house or neighborhood if I make a mistake brewing it, won't store well, and is a pita to use, apply or touch up etc.I guess I am just getting old, but it seems we are making this much harder then it needs to be. In the end, no one is going to care what gun stock finish I used. IMHO

I'm of the opposite mind. But then, I don’t pursue practicality in the modern sense (quick and easy). Not that there is anything at all wrong with your approach. I certainly employ it broadly across many aspects of life.
 
I'm of the opposite mind. But then, I don’t pursue practicality in the modern sense (quick and easy). Not that there is anything at all wrong with your approach. I certainly employ it broadly across many aspects of life.
Yup, everyone decides what works for them. That's the way it should be IMHO
 
I had to do 3 stocks over and I just went mental and made a mix of BLO- tung oil- polyurethane- paint thinner for natural finish. made a big mason jar of it. then if I wanted a darker finish I put small amount in a small jar and mixed min wax walnut stain. in between finish I put mini wax pecan or colonial maple or both. what I liked is having the mother load then using small amounts to get the color I wanted. if it took to long to dry I added more paint thinner
 
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