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Traditional ML hunting in CA

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scotbradly726

32 Cal
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
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My wife and I are moving to Northern Ca next year and as an avid hunter, I want to be able to use my newly aquired .50 cal G.L. Jones flint lock. I'm curious, with California banning all lead ammunition, what are you that hunt down there shooting out of your traditional ML's to abide by these laws?
 

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If you use an undersized steel or brass ball with thick patches, the rifling should be protected fairly well.

I have a .530" steel ball that would work in my .54 New Englander but I don't know how or where I got it so I can't give you a source.

Probably the best solution would be to move to Idaho.
 
From California Mammal Hunting Regulations:

§250.1. Prohibition on the Use of Lead Projectiles and Ammunition Using Lead Projectiles for the Take of Wildlife.

  • (a) Purpose. This regulation phases in the requirements of Fish and Game Code Section 3004.5, which prohibits the use of any lead projectiles or ammunition containing lead projectiles when taking any wildlife with a firearm on or after July 1, 2019.
  • (b) Definitions.
    • (1) A projectile is any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot, shot, pellet or other device that is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force.
    • (2) Nonlead ammunition is any centerfire, shotgun, muzzleloading, or rimfire ammunition containing projectiles certified pursuant to subsection (b)(3) or subsection (f).
I studied other sections of the regs and they mostly refer back to the above. I can see finding an appropriately-sized steel ball bearing and properly-sized patch but...it ain't happening with lead.

wm
 
What happened to Roundball?He is from Virginia correct?"He used to post on here a lot.Griz
 
I would use bismuth. It's non toxic, as soft as lead and 86% of the density of lead. The melting point is only 520 degrees, 100 lower than lead. It is something I need to add to my shopping list.
 
cast some gold 📀balls has the same wait as lead ,just very costly(like everything in ca) I would find out what the Ca fishermen and upland hunters use for shot/sinkers and see if it can be made into safe round balls
 
As suggested by @Walkingeagle read the old posts by Roundball and his testing of 58 caliber brass balls. Non-Lead projectiles for hunting
Walkingeagl`s assertion of the brass balls may very well be correct and I believe it is. The problem lies in the calif. law . All projectiles must be State or DFG wichever it is by law. and provable to a game warden by showing paxkaging matwerial , samples ,or by what ever means is asked for or your hunt is over and ypu may be cited for illegal gear or whatever term is being used.
There is hope Online under cagov/ hunting regs or some such a list of approved projectiles is found, there are quite a number . I believe they are all copper some woodenshoes and some bore size.

Good luck Buzz

PS Many years ago ,not long after the Alaskan and ca, north coast earth quake I took a very nice blacktail fork taken on road to Shelter Cove Ca
. with a very nice spread of better than 20 in. and very tall tines.
In many ways prettier and more impressive than a four point mulley hanging above my desk, this guy being shot by my Dad Hobart Mills Cal. with a Winchester `95 in -06 cal.1947.
 
From California Mammal Hunting Regulations:

§250.1. Prohibition on the Use of Lead Projectiles and Ammunition Using Lead Projectiles for the Take of Wildlife.

  • (a) Purpose. This regulation phases in the requirements of Fish and Game Code Section 3004.5, which prohibits the use of any lead projectiles or ammunition containing lead projectiles when taking any wildlife with a firearm on or after July 1, 2019.
  • (b) Definitions.
    • (1) A projectile is any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot, shot, pellet or other device that is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force.
    • (2) Nonlead ammunition is any centerfire, shotgun, muzzleloading, or rimfire ammunition containing projectiles certified pursuant to subsection (b)(3) or subsection (f).

AFAIK, ATF doesn't classify muzzleloaders as "firearms." If Commiefornia has the same definition, it could be legal to use lead for muzzleloaders. Research the law and keep a copy with you if it is favorable to MZ hunting.
 

AFAIK, ATF doesn't classify muzzleloaders as "firearms." If Commiefornia has the same definition, it could be legal to use lead for muzzleloaders. Research the law and keep a copy with you if it is favorable to MZ hunting.
IT is not legal! the word FIREARM cannot be taken in the same sense in Calif. as it is in other states..
The only way Calif even considers ATF would be if a fed. statuate could be found to help Calif . to enhance or in crease a penalty fine or prosecute.
Don`t make assumptions , look things up, we will all be the wiser for it.

Buzz
 
California has become dangerous for free people. Go directly to the
Game commission or whatever and get advice in writing. They are
anti-gun and will twist the laws against you. Get it in writing. Then
get it laminated and carry it on you while hunting. Assume nothing.
California is highly mineralized and has significant lead in the Rockies.
However, that lead is Ok. It's just the sportsperson with the gun that
we must eliminate. Sporting lead is different from huge lead in the
soil and mountains? It must be Evil lead. We must make more laws!
 
California has become dangerous for free people. Go directly to the
Game commission or whatever and get advice in writing. They are
anti-gun and will twist the laws against you. Get it in writing. Then
get it laminated and carry it on you while hunting. Assume nothing.
California is highly mineralized and has significant lead in the Rockies.
However, that lead is Ok. It's just the sportsperson with the gun that
we must eliminate. Sporting lead is different from huge lead in the
soil and mountains? It must be Evil lead. We must make more laws!
PAERHAPS the Siera , not much lead i`m afraid majority bureaucrats live in valley large cities.
 
Galena is the ore of Lead. There are trace amounts all over California. The Sierra Gordo
Mine in INYO COUNTY Calif. is a lead mine and there are many other lesser sites.
The prohibition of lead in bullets will not affect health or safety, it is just something
for politicians to do when they don't know what to do. It is symbolic.
 
The mine you refer to is at Cerro Gordo (Fat Hill), Inyo county. Silver bearing ore usually also contains lead and zinc. Used to hunt there in the 60s' and early 70s', very interesting place.
Lead is not a boogeyman and the entire subject of lead used in firearms is all bull-stuff.
 
My wife and I are moving to Northern Ca next year and as an avid hunter, I want to be able to use my newly aquired .50 cal G.L. Jones flint lock. I'm curious, with California banning all lead ammunition, what are you that hunt down there shooting out of your traditional ML's to abide by these laws?
I don't live in California, but this topic interests me. I'm also interested in birds.

It is my understanding that there is scientific research behind the rule. Lead projectiles tend to fragment, to some extent, on impact. Gut piles frequently contain some of these fragments, and carrion eaters, such as condors, ingest them along with the animal parts they consume from the gut piles. Toxic effects of the lead particles evidently affect their health and reproductive ability. Hence the law requiring non-lead projectiles.

I live in Florida, and am unaffected by this rule. I've looked at it as objectively as possible. There is a lot about it online and in publications, and the research, as presented, seems pretty solid. However, my own professional practice, in healthcare, was driven by science, and I can tell you even scientists sometimes have an axe to grind. I've read articles by respected professionals who looked at the same problem (for example, the effects of tracheostomy tubes on human swallowing function) and found different results. The point here being that whether you agree with the science or not, people in positions of power have translated it into law, and people who live in the areas affected have to abide by it.

Sorry I can't post a link from the device I am using, but if you would go to Google and enter "ballistic products tombob itx," you should find some links to follow. TomBob Outdoors developed a line of non-lead projectiles intended for muzzleloaders shooting patched round balls. These are evidently composed of an iron-tungsten matrix (that's where the "ITX" designation comes from) produced from powdered metals fused under heat and pressure. I don't think they are frangible, but are meant to hold together. The round balls come in sizes for .32, .45, .50, .54, and .62 caliber. They also produce ITX shot in five sizes, fro #6 to 00 buck. These specific products have been approved by those commissions requiring non-lead projectiles. The round balls have a distinctly visible flat "belt" around the middle, and they come in distinctive packages, so game wardens can recognize the individual bullets or the packages on sight.

Reading the promotional literature, you would think the ITX round balls would be the answer to the California hunter's prayers... Essentially interchangeable with lead balls, minimal weight difference, similar point of impact, good penetration, legal to use, etc. However, in trying to learn more about these, it appears there is a downside.

The most obvious one is cost. These are expensive. The .50 caliber (0.487") balls will cost right at a dollar apiece. Larger balls cost more, smaller ones a bit less, but most of us will not be doing much plinking with these.

I did read one shooting test... Somewhere, I forget... That found accuracy was acceptable but not impressive. I'll need to look that up again.

The other thing is that the ITX balls are apparently quite hard, possibly hard enough to damage your barrel if the patch slips during loading. Hard enough that your ball puller probably won't work if you forget to load powder first. If you go to the Rice Barrels website and read their disclaimers, you get the sense that Rice was thinking of these balls when those disclaimers were written. I was thinking of ordering a couple dozen of the balls just to experiment with them, but decided against it. Just not worth it, to me, to satisfy my curiosity.

I've wondered about other options. On my property, I had a quantity of dirty old copper tubing that I sold to a recycling company a couple of years ago, wondering all the while if it could be melted, cleaned, and cast into balls without ruining a mould. I also have a quantity of unusable ( split or dented) brass left over from my cowboy action phase, and I've wondered the same thing. Comparing brass to copper, which is softer, and which has the lower melting point? Can brass or copper be safely cast into bullets by home craftsmen? Maybe with Lyman or Saeco steel mould blocks? I would think that brass or copper would not be hard enough to damage a modern steel barrel during occasional use, although pulling a ball would probably be pretty difficult.

Interesting discussion.

Notchy Bob
 
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