Traditional Projectile for Traditional Muzzleloader Hunting

[Stumpkiller]

A snippet from a research paper I did in 2003 or thereabouts.

. . . This got me to thinking. “When”, I asks myself, “did conical bullets first show up?” I am curious about the predecessors of the one-piece T/C Maxi-Ball and Maxi-Hunter projectiles. Not sabots (which mean “wood shoes” and involve plastic and so are easily recognized as the devil’s work), but the simple one-piece cast or swaged lead bullets. Sabots, by the way, were used as early as 1833 by the French. Credited to a Lieutenant-Colonel Poncharra, who improved an 1825+/- concept created by Captain Gustave Delvigne. Delvigne’s bullet required a shoulder in the breech plug and that the bullet be pounded via the ramrod enough to upset the lead into the rifling ”“ obviously not the thing for battle. The Poncharra sabot was first used in combat over in Algeria in 1840. I know the Whitworth used by Civil War snipers had a hexagonal conical bullet that fit special rifling, and Minié (who died in 1879) had his hollow base bullet by 1848, and the Snyder used a Pritchett bullet (similar to the Minié) right around that time. Our own James H. Burton designed the familiar one-piece minie bullet. The earliest shoulder-fired conical bullet mention I could find in my tiny library was an 1824 attempt by Captain John Norton to get the British Government to accept a cylindrical, hollow-based bullet. According to the author, Gary James writing in Dixie’s 1983 Blackpowder Annual, Norton was turned down without tests conducted as “a spherical ball was the only shape of projectile adapted for military purposes.”



Sources:
http://www.geocities.com/milsurpunderground/French.html info on French rifles
http://www.wwiitech.net/main/britain/weapons/intro-r/ British weapons of the early 1800’s

http://data2.itc.nps.gov/hafe/detail.cfm?Image_No=burt%2D20 “Official” Minié & Burton (Harpers Ferry armorer) bullet diagrams.

I don't think the first two links are still servicable.

So for the 600 or so years muzzleloaders were the only option the conicals had a run of military usage towards the tail end. Most of those hollow base or using a wood expander plug. About the time they became widespread enough for civilian use so did cartridges and breech-loaders.

 

[dyemaker]

This is all common knowledge really. Ok go ahead and ban the words maxi balls and conicals on the forum. You kids won't have anything to argue about then, but remember.... I refuse to wear any stupid looking pilgrim shoes every time I want to log in.

 

[longcruise]

This is all common knowledge really. Ok go ahead and ban the words maxi balls and conicals on the forum. You kids won't have anything to argue about then, but remember.... I refuse to wear any stupid looking pilgrim shoes every time I want to log in.

Well, your "reply" was to my post but does not seem to refer to it specifically so I'm confused.

Nobody has suggested banning any words or discussions and in fact conical shooting has been frequently discussed and will probably continue to be. Neither is there any requiremnt that hunting discussions or descriptions revolve around PC or HC clothing. Many participants stick strictly with early 21st century clothing.

 

[tg]

Seems to me that the rude comments on this thread have not come from the ball shooters,but a check of the archives will show that that is the trend.I don't carewhat type of shoes you wear fella just wear clean socks.I have watched this forum since it began and truely believe that many would be happier and fit better in a modern ML forum.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Seems to me that the rude comments on this thread have not come from the ball shooters,but a check of the archives will show that that is the trend.I don't carewhat type of shoes you wear fella just wear clean socks.I have watched this forum since it began and truely believe that many would be happier and fit better in a modern ML forum.

If "many" leave then few are left...THAT would be fun! :wink: Not to mention that THAT would pretty much eliminate the chance of promoting and encouraging what you feel is the more traditional way.
TG, YOU, along with meny others on here have walked me from a shinny new inline (never even made it to the 1st hunt) to a caplock then a hand full; From powerbelts to connicals to RB's, to pouring my own. The point is NOW you have one more member then you otherwise would have which dosnt really mean that much for a forum BUT it makes a BIG differance on the ground where regulation, product availability, and awareness are manifest.
Seriously would you rather share the woods with a caplock and a connical, a inline and a powerbelt, or prehaps not at all because there wasnt enough interest to continue? :hmm:

 

[tg]

There were plenty of ML hunters around and always more on the way before someone begin to modernize everything, it will be so again if the modern conicals and modern peepsight were not leagal in ML seasons,if they were not there those who wanted to hunt with a ML would buy and use the traditional gear like we did 40 years ago. the forests are vast with much game to persue, in ML hunts just leave the modern stuff at the door and jump in with a traditional outfit and enjoy the hunt as it was intended by those who spend may hours and their own funds many years ago to get the ML hunts we have today.Everyone seems to miss the one word that is at issue "modern" there were lots of period bullets and peepsights that would fit just fine in a ML hunt, if a person wants to uise bullets and peeps why not use these instead of trying to pass off the modern stuff as "traditional"? There is a line of understanding/missunderstanding drawn in the sand and neither side will likely budge it has been this way for a long time and will not likely change due to a lot of false claims made by the modern bullet makers and their schills.

 

[dyemaker]

Sorry marmotslayer. I replied to your posting because it was the last one that's all. By the way, I only use roundballs for hunting.

 

[longcruise]

There is a line of understanding/missunderstanding drawn in the sand and neither side will likely budge it has been this way for a long time and will not likely change due to a lot of false claims made by the modern bullet makers and their schills.

It would be easy to change it. Just lobby your fish and game dept to eliminate any special ml seasons. The Modern ml will go away over night. Those who truly love ml hunting will hunt with ml during the rifle and or shot gun seasons.

At this time, in Colorado, the pellets, scopes and sabots are disallowed during ml season. Same is true of cross bows during the bow season. But, those who wish to use them are free to do so during the regular rifle season. It's no surprise that they are not out there.

Trad ml hunting might even become more popular as rifle hunters begin to encounter trad ml hunters during the regular rifle season.

 

[hrchotaw]

It seems alot of hunters have magnumitis or some type of complex! I for one don't want the special M/L seasons to go away as this is the only time I don,t have to worry about gettin shot in the butt by an errant bullet from a 300 super short ultra mag turbocharged rifle whose trigger is pulled by some dang fool! Around here the late muzzleloader season is great because all the hunters are afraid of getting cold!! I know you weren't saying they should go away but with all the bright ideas circulating right now Who knows!

 

[longcruise]

I can see your point on not wanting to be in the woods with the suppository guys. I for one have hunted many rifle seasons with my ml and with a suppository gun and never had an occasion to be nervous.

Once during the bow season my wife found herself surrounded by whizzing .22 rimfire bullets. Apparently they were from target practicers about a 1/4 or 1/2 mile away who probably put targets on the top of the road berm and were shooting at them. :shocked2:

Maybe we need another poll?