Traditions Pennsylvania range report

[JohnnyO]

Finally made it out to the range, it has been almost 2 years since I've shot, plus I had little sleep, only several months ago I had back surgery, and there was a 10-15mph cross wind, so I was a bit nervous on the outcome. This is my first flinter, and first patch/ball rifle as well, so I basically have no idea what I am doing.
Started with 60g FFF, then moved to 70g FFF...shot a total of 32 rounds, with 2/3 of those at 50 yards with the rest at 75 yards.
The rifle shot REALLY low, only 18 shots made it on paper total, and I was aiming high and into the wind...I'm good with that for now, I'm not a good shot to begin with.
.490 round balls, .010 patches, [the wind blew plenty of them off the table an downrange :cursing:] did a dozen shots with pure mink oil before switching to TC bore butter

top left is bore butter, rest are mink oil, those are the only patches I could find in this wind! What causes the burning? Not lubed enough? They were dry patches I lubed prior to ramming

50 yards, aiming high

75 yards

At the end of my trip to the range however, I got the ramrod stuck with a cleaning patch, tugged on it and snapped the brass end off :cursing: :shake: Then I cut myself on the flint [yep, them are sharp] :shake: then tipped over my container of homemade solvent :shake: then found out that my homemade solvent turns brass dull/brown...the inlets are fine but the buttstock, and ramrod rings/holders got some streaks on them :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:
One of those days I guess
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wcgEkN5uuo[/youtube]

 

[JohnnyO]

Stills from the video

 

[MikeC]

Looks like you need a thicker patch.

 

[Trench]

Yup, go to a thicker patch and watch those groups close up. Even in mildly heavy wind, you should still get a tight group, albeit somwhere left or right of the bull. I use a .018 with my .490 ball.
Your range session sounds like my first range session. It was a total farce. :grin: Try investing in a brass range rod for cleaning to avoid busting your rods.

 

[JohnnyO]

I tried a .015 patch and it seemed rather tight, only tried one...next time I'll try em again I guess.

 

[Trench]

Hmm, .015 seems tight, eh? Well, if it doesn't work maybe you can use some kind of over-powder wad?

 

[JohnnyO]

How tight is it supposed to be? lol I don't really know, but it seemed a bit hard to ram with the 15 patch instead of the 10...but the 10 was pretty easy with a clean bore...I'll definitely try the 15s again

 

[Trench]

From what I know, most shooters will use at least a .015 patch. Are there any other members out there that shoot his rifle in .50 caliber? Perhaps they can shed some light on what works.
For me, in my Traditions Hawken, .015 took some pressure to get started and a bit of force to squeeze down the barrel. The .018 gets hammered in with the wood handle of my short starter. Goes down in two smacks. The combination requires my brass range rod to get down smoothly. Otherwise I'm hammering the ramrod that comes with the rifle to get the ball down. The bore will sometimes "sing" with a resonance as I push the ball down. It takes more effort, but my groups sure have improved and I don't get blow through anymore.

 

[JohnnyO]

Well I don't think they were that tight for me, I was just scared to break my ramrod and ended up breaking it anyways! oy...looking for replacements online
Thanks for all your help, I'm sure I'll have lots more questions later on :bow:

 

[bingo1952]

If you don't have a short starter get one. A piece of 3/8" brass rod works well for a range rod. Drill and tap one end 10/32 and get a cleaning and a loading jag with a steel stud. The brass threads are notorious for breaking. You can put on a tee handle, a wood ball, or cut it a little long and radius the end and lightly knurl the grip area. Happy Shooting.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Trench is right about the thicker patch and the short starter. I have to give mine a good rap to get started. They go down tight, but shoot accurately. Take a closer look at those patches. Are they burned or cut? A new rifle will cut patches until the barrel is shot in and the rifleings smooth out. Try changing your powder charge and see if that helps. Use some Brasso on the tarnished brass. It should polish it up bright. Invest in a range rod. I got mine from Dixie: https://www.dixiegunworks.com/prod...=1281&osCsid=de5b27517a3678d566898697ba31d08e . Been using it for 28 years. The ram rods supplied with production rifles are normally junk. A good range rod will serve you well. You have a long road ahead of you to get that rifle whipped into shape, but that's the fun of it all. Happy shooting :thumbsup: .

 

[PreglerD]

Hello from Germany!

Have a try with patches that were lubed a while before shooting so that they can sature the lube, or use süittled patches. I do this when target shooting.
As a charge for this longbarreled rifle I'll recommend 60 grs FFg at first, then work up in 5 grs steps.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[2172]

I shoot a .50 prb and had real trouble with any patch thicker than .010..switched to a .48 ball and now use .020 patching without using a mallet to seat the ball...before, .015 patching would have had me using a mallet if I had a .49 ball.
Hank

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Hey JohnnyO,

Well you might be having some challenges with your patches, but judging from your video, your ignition is good and quick.

Definitely go with the .015" patch and the .490 round ball with that rifle. You will need a short starter and as others have said, get a range rod so you don't have to worry about damaging your ramrod. I have two. One was just a long hickory rod that I got from October Country, and the other is a metal ramrod made out of some stainless rod stock. I have to be careful to use the bore guide with it, but that's not hard because the guy in the BP club who made them permanently mounted a bore guide on the rod. No worry about using one with wood or brass, but if you use steel you have to use a bore guide to keep from banging up the crown of muzzle.

If you use a wooden ramrod or wooden range rod, only grab onto the rod about 8" above the muzzle and push it down a little at a time. That way you can't break it. If you grab it three feet up and try to ram it home, it may hang up, flex, and break, possibly shoving parts of the ramrod through your hand. So a little bit at a time until it's seated against the powder.

Looks like you might be getting cuts on your patch as opposed to burn through. The thicker .015" patch will probably fix that. If not, you'll just have to shoot it a lot until it smooths out. If you want to smooth it out quicker, go visit the gun builder forum and ask them how to smooth the rifling. You'll get at least two of three ways to do it.

Also, go look up the recipe for Stumpy's Moose Snot and mix up a batch. It's about the consistency of shoe polish when it's done and the stuff works really well. As long as I'm not too skimpy on using it on my patches, I can just keep lubing patches and ramming it down. If you don't use enough, it's hard to ram down. I think it's the best stuff because it doesn't turn into a rock in freezing weather, it doesn't turn into oil in hot weather, and it allows me to shoot 30-50 shots or so without wiping in between using the same rifle you have.

Keep at it on the range and you're groups will tighten up. I'm going to guess you'll end up shooting a heavier charge, but don't do that until after you've shot a fair number of round balls through it with the heavier patch.

Good Shootin!
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[lolasmom]

Hi. I'm a real beginner, and I'm hoping you'll have the patience to answer some basic questions so I can follow what you guys are talking about. What's the difference between a ramrod and a range rod? Is the bore guide the brass end of the ramrod that the ball seats into? I seem to have a synthetic ramrod that came with my Traditions .50 Tennessee, so do I need another one as well? Thanks.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Ramrod is the rod that fits in the pipes under the barrel of your rifle, and travels with the rifle. A Range Rod is a SECOND rod, you buy, usually one piece in construction, made of metal for strength. It can be steel, brass, or aircraft aluminum. October Country and Cain's will make Range rods of brass to any length you need.

Range rods usually come with what is called either a BORE PROTECTOR, or MUZZLE PROTECTOR, made of brass, or aluminum, or now, Delrin synthetic material. You can buy these protectors separately from suppliers. The purpose of the protector is to keep the metal rod from rubbing against the lands of your bore as it moves in and out of the barrel, and in the process, help to center the jag on the ball as you drive it down the barrel. Because the muzzle's condition is absolutely critical to accuracy, protecting it from abuse, and wear is very important. Both the rod and the muzzle protector should be wiped frequently, if not after each use to keep grit from collecting on the protector, and then grinding on the muzzle the next time the rod and protector are used.

Only you can decide if you need a second rod. They are used because the ramrod DOES NOT have that muzzle protector. Ramrods are usually made of wood, but some do come made from synthetics. Both materials are soft, and will hold microscopic bits of silica, and metal, that become file like teeth that wear the crown of your barrel. Eventually, the crown is no longer round, and the ball starts hitting a different POI compared to your POA. It takes lots of shots, however, with a barrel made of modern steel, before that crown is worn enough to affect accuracy very much.


So, how much shooting are you doing, or going to do with that gun?? If you shoot regularly at a local club to keep your shooting skills up, then you might as well buy that Range Rod. Range rods are what you want if you ever dry ball a PRB in your barrel( Load the PRB without putting powder down the barrel first :shocked2: :redface: )And, because it usually is heavier than you ramrod, the Range rod makes loading and cleaning that barrel a lot less work.

I don't know any MLer has has a range rod who has gotten rid of it in preference to his ramrod. Range rods are just that: a rod you use at the range. You don't usually take it into the field with you. They often have a T-handle, or a large knob,( Think doorknob) or a long round handle that makes them easier to grasp in the event you have to pull out that dry-ball. There are techniques to " make-do" with a ramrod, but those range rods just simplify matters.

Hang in there. You will begin to understand all this stuff the more experience you acquire, and the more shoots you attend. MLers are quite friendly and helpful to the new guys, simply because we all love to see new guys, of any age, taking up the sport we love. :hatsoff:

 

Paul, your verbosity is truly a blessing! i mean it. Cant really add to that. All good info.

JohnnyO, only thing i can add is to think about coneing your barrel. Real Sweet on loading -- no fumbling around. Less to carry. And choke-up on that RR.
:v

 

[lolasmom]

I've seen someone dry ball a PRB, but he was drunk as a skunk. Hopefully it won't happen to me. Nevertheless, the range rod sounds like a great idea since I'm planning on trying to get out a couple times a month for starters. I'll check my local gun shop as I hear they have a BP section. Otherwise I've noticed Dixie Guns Works mentioned a few times around here. Is that the best place to pick things up online?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Since you are new, I suggest you go to the top of the Index page to this forum and then scroll down to " Member Resources". Then go down to " Articles, Charts, and Links". Click on the " Links " It will give you a list of suppliers of just about everything. Then click on the names and go to their on-line catalogues and compare prices for the products that interest you. There are suppliers out there who are not listed on the Links page, here. I see ads for others all the time in the classifieds and ads found in Muzzle Blasts, Muzzleloader magazine, and other gun and outdoor publications. If you google the name of an item, you can often find other suppliers in the computer search, but not always. There are some suppliers we mention in the threads of this forum, who do not have websites, or even email addresses.

Dixie GWs is one of the suppliers. But there are others. Some have better prices on some things. I have not looked at range rods for awhile, because I already have one for each gun I own. So, I can't tell you prices. I have a Dixie catalog that is a couple of years old. It gives me their product number which makes it easier to order things from them. But, you can get the same information, and current prices off your computer for Dixie and other suppliers.

For what its worth, I like my stainless steel rods, because they are so strong. I never worry about them bending or breaking, as I would with brass rods. Both can be bent, and broken with enough effort. My stainless rods are easier to clean than the brass rod I once had, and that has tipped the balance in favor of the steel rod for me. Choosing one over the other is a matter of personal preference.

 

ive tried these guys. theyre pretty good.
www.trackofthewolf.com