Traditions Ramrod questions

[Paulj]

Just bought a Traditions 50 cal Kentucky flintlock and it shoots great but I do have one issue. When seating the ramrod it will not go all the way in because it hits the front sidelock screw. When I remove the screw the rod goes all the way in and I feel it being seated into some kind of bushing that I assume gives the rod the snug fit so it won't bounce forward when discharged. My temporary remedy was to notch the ramrod so the screw can be seated into the sidelock so I can shoot it, as seen in the first photo, but the rod will not come out without removing the screw. I use a range rod anyway but I do want to fix this issue.
1...Should I take off the front stock to get to the channel and for repairs and what about the bushing to make the rod snug? How does it get removed or repaired or exactly what do I do? Is it worth all this to fix it or shall I just put the rod in, screw the screw in and never remove the rod again??????
2... In the second picture I took of the trigger guard off and discovered 2 screws in the stock. One at the very rear and the other at the front. What are these for?

Thanks for your help?

 

[necchi]

There's a spring in there that has moved out of place because you removed the front lock screw.
See this;

The fix is easy, but a little different with a finished rifle.
Now pay attention here, your rifle is a two piece stock,, the barrel is pinned to the front section,, do not remove those pins, there is no need too.
You have to remove the barrel from the rear section of the stock,, it's held in the rear section with just one screw, the tang screw.
The tang screw goes through the stock and into the trigger plate,, pull that screw all the way out.
Now grab the front section of forearm/ barrel with one hand and the butt section with the other and pull them apart ( you may have to bend the two sections a bit to lift the back of the barrel some for a clean release).
Find the loose spring and re-install it as shown in the vid.
A lot of times that spring will get bent , make sure it's in the same shape as the one shown in the vid.
Again you don't have to remove the barrel from the front stock section.

Next time you pull the lock, don't pull the front lock screw all the way out,, just loosen it from the lock.
Some folks just remove and toss that spring. Sure the rod will move around a bit without it, but if your aware of that it causes little issue.

p.s. I have no idea what those two screws are in your second photo,, I have never seen them before.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I loosen the front lock screw on my traditions and put masking tape over it to hold in the stock when removing the lock. That little spring then stays in place.

 

[SDSmlf]

Once you figure out how the spring works I suggest pinning the spring in the stock so the spring doesn’t move out of position when you remove the lock screw. You will not have to worry about that spring getting loose in the future.

 

[longcruise]

Throw the spring away! Also, Throw the rod away and replace it a good quality hickory or even oak rod. Pick one that's not quite straight it will hold itself in place.

 

[stewart.leach]

I have put together or helped tune several Traditions Kentuckies. My guess is the two flathead screws inside the trigger guard are there to fill mis-drilled holes.

And yes, pinning the rod retention spring farther forward in the inlet results in a real nuisance reduction!

 

[necchi]

Once you figure out how the spring works I suggest pinning the spring in the stock so the spring doesn’t move out of position when you remove the lock screw. You will not have to worry about that spring getting loose in the future.

And yes, pinning the rod retention spring farther forward in the inlet results in a real nuisance reduction!

Ok, guy's.
How does anyone "pin" THAT spring?
Pin it where and how?
It's got a bolt going through the only thing that holds it in place,,(?)
The world want's to know.
Honest,,
explain how to pin that spring,, either one of ya,,

 

[necchi]

My guess is the two flathead screws inside the trigger guard are there to fill mis-drilled holes.

Yeah me too, I just can't/couldn't figure out why someone would drill holes where those screws are,(?)

 

[Tumbledown]

I have put together or helped tune several Traditions Kentuckies. My guess is the two flathead screws inside the trigger guard are there to fill mis-drilled holes.

As one who has 3 of these kits, I have no idea what you are referring to. EDIT TO ADD: I see the screws referred to. They may be to shim the trigger guard, but by no means are they standard.

 

[Pork Chop]

My thoughts on the screws is that they are to compensate for the inletting being too deep since it appears that the heads are proud of the base of the recess.

 

[SDSmlf]

Ok, guy's.
How does anyone "pin" THAT spring?
Pin it where and how?
It's got a bolt going through the only thing that holds it in place,,(?)
The world want's to know.
Honest,,
explain how to pin that spring,, either one of ya,,

Ok, I just thought that most everyone had a gun that used pins to hold the barrel, trigger guard or ramrod pipes for example and understood the concept. A hole is drilled from one side of the stock to the other. Probably best to use a drill press (you may want to pay a gunsmith to do this if not familiar with the process). It is located such that it is in front of or forward of the lock screw location, but at the same distance of height from the barrel. The drill must pass through the mortise visible in the barrel channel (requires removing the barrel from the stock for access) that the ramrod retention spring is located in and through the other side of the stock. One would then insert a pin from one side of the stock, into the mortise so it passes through the hole in the ramrod retaining spring (the same hole in the spring that the lock screw would have passed through) and then through the other side of the stock. The pin that is inserted through both sides of the stock and passes through the spring will hold the spring in place instead of the lock screw (which will now only hold the lock in place). Basically the same way the pins pass through stock and barrel tenons on the gun to hold the barrel and stock together. The pin will have to be trimmed to the correct length and the ends chamfered to avoid chipping the stock.

 

[necchi]

It is located such that it is in front of or forward of the lock screw location, but at the same distance of height from the barrel.

Oh, your going to move the location,, OK,,
That lock screw is significantly larger than most common "pin's" used

 

[SDSmlf]

Oh, your going to move the location,, OK,,
That lock screw is significantly larger than most common "pin's" used

@stewart.leach stated the location was moving forward in the his post you quoted.

And yes, pinning the rod retention spring farther forward in the inlet results in a real nuisance reduction!

As far pin diameter, I remember the CVA lock screw being 4mm or less diameter in the ones I pinned. A 3/32” diameter pin works fine, or use say a common 16 penny nail, should be about the same diameter of the lock screw if smaller diameter is a concern.

So what did you find to be the best way of keeping that spring from getting loose on the CVA/Traditions guns you have owned or handled?

 

[hanshi]

Throw the spring away! Also, Throw the rod away and replace it a good quality hickory or even oak rod. Pick one that's not quite straight it will hold itself in place.

I know you're not speaking literally about throwing parts away.....at least I hope not. I never throw anything away if there's a possibility it may see purpose at some future time. I'm having enough trouble with losing stuff and having my (when unsupervised) wife toss stuff before my sweaty little hands can properly lock onto it. There's a word for that, frugal, careful, tight okay then hoarder, satisfied now?

I've had thousands of $$ get tossed out that way as well as my Army photos, irreplaceable awards and vital tools & more. Can't really blame her, I mean, she's a woman after all.

---

 

[longcruise]

@hanshi just speaking figuratively. I jus threw out a cva Kentucky ramrod...... after stripping the brass ends off.

I make all of my ramrods from dowels that I cut with a doweler that is primarily used for arrows. The hardware store oak dowels are pretty good if carefully selected for minimal run-out.

My wife and I are both on the hoarder side of the spectrum so most of my stuff is still here.......somewhere.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I never throw anything away if

Welcome to the club.

 

[sb 54 cal.]

Built traditions long rifle kit used brass pin to hold spring just moved it forward a few inches.

 

[necchi]

So what did you find to be the best way of keeping that spring from getting loose on the CVA/Traditions guns you have owned or handled?

I'm in this group;

Some folks just remove and toss that spring. Sure the rod will move around a bit without it, but if your aware of that it causes little issue.

There's only been a couple that acted poorly or bothered me without that spring.
To be honest, I had to smash and bend the first one I discovered too, then bend a few more learning how to install it properly .
Those things still don't work well, it's just a plain bad design.
Slam the rod down just once too fast or too hard an catch it wrong, "TWinK!", it's got a bend in it,,

They were cheap, I think I finally just bought 5 when I ordered other stuff from a supplier.
I still have at least 2 in the spare parts section of the big box.(I think)
So, I had to learn the hard way too,, I'm just old now, I'm ready for that schwit.

p.s. Just a thought,, without me tearing one apart again,, is there enough room in the mortise to make a blind pin when moving it forward?

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Just bought a Traditions 50 cal Kentucky flintlock and it shoots great but I do have one issue. When seating the ramrod it will not go all the way in because it hits the front sidelock screw. When I remove the screw the rod goes all the way in and I feel it being seated into some kind of bushing that I assume gives the rod the snug fit so it won't bounce forward when discharged. My temporary remedy was to notch the ramrod so the screw can be seated into the sidelock so I can shoot it, as seen in the first photo, but the rod will not come out without removing the screw. I use a range rod anyway but I do want to fix this issue.
1...Should I take off the front stock to get to the channel and for repairs and what about the bushing to make the rod snug? How does it get removed or repaired or exactly what do I do? Is it worth all this to fix it or shall I just put the rod in, screw the screw in and never remove the rod again??????
2... In the second picture I took of the trigger guard off and discovered 2 screws in the stock. One at the very rear and the other at the front. What are these for?

Thanks for your help?

I had that happen often enough with my Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle that I finally pinned it in place. Otherwise you have to remove the barrel from the stock to put that lock screw through the little loop at the end of that bent spring. Here's a shot of where it is. I just drilled a hole straight through and put some pin-stock in there. I then covered in the hole by crayola-ing in some wood putty. I scraped out the wood putty so you could see it more easily. Get the wood putty in Walnut in the stick to match the stock. That placement worked perfectly and I never had to worry about that lock screw coming out again. I always pulled the lock screw out after that and put it in the little box with the tools I used for gun cleaning. Before that I tried putting a piece of Scotch tape over it after I removed the lock - that worked poorly! Pinning it works great and you never have to worry about it again.

 

[SDSmlf]

Just a thought,, without me tearing one apart again,, is there enough room in the mortise to make a blind pin when moving it forward?

If you are talking about hiding the pin under the lock in the lock mortise, I don’t think it is a wise move. As I remember these (I have not looked in a while) the wood thickness in the lock mortise on the lock side is less than .100”, not enough to support a pin. And on the side plate side they just used washers under the lock screw heads, so you are talking about a blind hole to hide the pin on the opposite side. And you have to be somewhat careful you don’t have inference between the ramrod spring and the lock screw when you relocate it. I have placed the pins about where @dgracia shows his installed, although on half stock guns with hooked breeches I move the pin a bit further forward and add a thin second pin so the spring can’t flip when the barrel is out of the stock. Made that modification after being tripped up by a 14 year old that had it flip when they cleaned their gun. Not really necessary, but makes for one less thing to worry about going wrong.