traditions trapper

[n2t]

Hey all. I'm very new to muzzle loading but wanted to try something new this year. I am considering picking up a flintlock traditions trapper, some patches and round balls, powder and after making sure I can get consistent hits going after some deer. I was wondering what all your opinions are of this gun and cal for deer as far as being able to make an ethical kill? I thought with the set triggers, 9.8" barrel and rudamentary adjustable sites it would be just the ticket. Thanks for any and all replies on this matter.

 

[mykeal]

In my opinion you'd have to be a top 5 hunter to record a humane kill on a deer with a flintlock pistol. And I don't believe any of those would try it.

Range would have to be on the order of 30 yards, and the stalking ability to get that close and have your flint spark be the first alarm for the deer would be phenomenal. If you have that ability, go for it, but I've never met that person.

Deer have a two stage alarm instinct. They will freeze and look when any of the first stage alarms (sight, sound, smell) go off, and then flee when the second stage alarm (same 3) triggers.

You need to be close enough to shoot within 2" of POA with a primitive handgun. That's 30 yards max. You need to reach that point without tripping the target's first alarm, because the flint spark will trip the second alarm and cause it to move enough to spoil the shot before the main charge fires. You might still hit it, but it will not be a kill shot by that point.

Are you good enough to reach that range and then shoot a 2 inch group, offhand?

 

[bwhoffman]

I have a trapper in percussion. IF I do my part, the gun will shoot 3 inch at 35 yards, IF I DO MY PART. I tend to agree with the flinter/alarm issue.
that aside, the 50 cal perc model would make a good reliable handgun, mine shoots well, has a good trigger group and once you figure out a grip and sight picture, it has repeatability.
I also have a Wm Parker caplock, far superior to the trapper IMHO. better grip also.

Downsides I have seen on the trapper are...
loose sights
weak springs in the lock and have seen 2 that broke.
Capper comes with a pretty rough nipple, I replaced mine after it shattered.

For what its worth.

 

[Robert Egler]

You might want to check your state hunting regs. In some states it is illegal to hunt anything with a muzzleloading pistol. It is here in NC.

 

[Runner]

I carried a CVA Mountain pistol for years. Loaded with p and a conical, it was perfectly capable of deer out to 35 yards or so. It kicked like a mule loaded that way tho. Same as the others said tho. Hunting situation accuracy requires a lot of time with s short barreled gun that has a huge hammer falling off center.
I heard this story once about a guy with a mountain pistol that shot home cast hollow point conicals. He supposedly filled the nose with wax and glued a BB on top of the wax. Supposedly, he could split firewood like you were using a maul and the recovered bullets would be in the 1 inch range. Just a story I guess!

 

[jethro224]

First of all, a disclaimer; I have never YET shot a deer with a BP handgun. That said, I will be trying again this winter.

Here in Illinois the only legal time one can shoot a deer with a BP handgun is during the 3 day late-winter-antlerless season in mid January. I tried to get one 2 years ago but the only deer around had antlers. Go figger. Try and find a doe on purpose... :surrender:
Last year there were some legal changes and I got confused and didn't get the right permit... :cursing:
This year I'll be trying again. :thumbsup:

Another thing is the muzzle energy issue. According to Illinois law, a ML handgun load must produce at least 500 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. This has to be according to published specs. In order to do that with a patched round ball, I went with the .54 caplock Great Plains Pistol. I have to use 50 grains of 3F Goex under that .530 ball to get the magic number. With a .50 it'll take a ball-ette or a conical.

I would consider it the ultimate deer hunting challenge with a firearm to take one with a ML pistol. 25 yards would be my max. About the same as with my recurve bow.

As stated earlier, check you state regs first then practice up and get in close! Good Luck! :hatsoff:

 

[n2t]

I live in montana no special season or regs on bp. I do think I can get close without spooking a deer, and we can shoot buck or doe here. I've been less than 10 yards from deer while they fed and have considered archery in the past but was looking at something new this year. I'm still considering this you guys seem to think it's less than humane, others have been all for it...this has me a bit undecided. Maybe I should pick it up and let my accuracy dictate as I think the gun is more than capable of the act.

 

[redwing]

I have hunted with modern handguns for years. As you stated it is easy to get real close to a young Mule Deer. They are not going to bolt from a click or a spark like a White Tail.
All that being said. My concern with B/P handguns is the lack of power. I would try it out by firing at hard wood 2x4s. Pick the ranges where the ball breaks thru the 2x4s that will get you a kill. The Trapper is an inexpensive pistol and it will need some work to get it ready for hunting.
My B/P hunting pistol is a .50 Cal. 11 1/2" Ed Rayle barrel, Siler lock and Davis single trigger.
I consider it to be 25 yds. or much less. Good Luck. :wink:

 

[bwhoffman]

I live in montana no special season or regs on bp. I do think I can get close without spooking a deer, and we can shoot buck or doe here. I've been less than 10 yards from deer while they fed and have considered archery in the past but was looking at something new this year. I'm still considering this you guys seem to think it's less than humane, others have been all for it...this has me a bit undecided. Maybe I should pick it up and let my accuracy dictate as I think the gun is more than capable of the act.

Thats why God gave us Kidneys,er Brains! ya, thats it, Brains! :rotf:
Anywho, now you are thinking! good job.

To have a trapper as a shooter,for paper, clangers or trailwalk type shoots, you would be hard pressed to find a better or more acurate handgun for the money!

I still favor the Wm Parker over the trapper for several reasons though, butI wont be selling my trapper...too good of a gun!

 

[oneeye]

In my opinion you'd have to be a top 5 hunter to record a humane kill on a deer with a flintlock pistol. And I don't believe any of those would try it.

Range would have to be on the order of 30 yards, and the stalking ability to get that close and have your flint spark be the first alarm for the deer would be phenomenal. If you have that ability, go for it, but I've never met that person.

Deer have a two stage alarm instinct. They will freeze and look when any of the first stage alarms (sight, sound, smell) go off, and then flee when the second stage alarm (same 3) triggers.

You need to be close enough to shoot within 2" of POA with a primitive handgun. That's 30 yards max. You need to reach that point without tripping the target's first alarm, because the flint spark will trip the second alarm and cause it to move enough to spoil the shot before the main charge fires. You might still hit it, but it will not be a kill shot by that point.

Are you good enough to reach that range and then shoot a 2 inch group, offhand?

Sorry for bringing an old thread back up, but I am researching BP hunting with a pistol. How would this be any different with a flintlock rifle? Wouldn't you have the same challenge? I can't believe that flintlock hunters only shoot at animals further away due to their shower of sparks.
Dan

 

[buck1]

I have hunted from treestand, groundblind, and stalked whitetail deer for most of my life with bow and arrow, we use wild game as one of our main sources of meat. Not bragging just proving a point,I have killed more deer in my life than I could ever begin to count! While I have to agree that deer are very nervouse animals, I have also put as many as 2 wooden arrows from a self bow through one from as close as 8 yards and the deer not know that he was even shot! We also raise and butcher our own cows and hogs that we kill with a .22cal. without a problem! I have knew a guy that hunted deer with nothing but a .22cal. when I was a boy! All this to say yes I agree tht it would be a challenge on the hunter, but not as impossible as some make it sound! In my opinion if you used a .50cal. or bigger found the best load and practiced stalking and shooting
{or sitting quietly in a stand} and estimating your effective range, You should have no problems. As far as ethics go, I can shoot a deer with a river cane arrow with a knapped stone point from a indian style selfbow that shoots less than 200 fps and it will expire within 30 seconds as long as
I do my part and place the arrow where it needs to go! I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers here as that was not my intension at all, I just know that what he is asking about is very possible if he does his part in preperation even though it may be alot of work and a challenge! But wait isn't that one of the reasons we use black powder in the first place insted of one of those wanna be muzzleloaders {inline} that shoot that wanna be powder {pyrodex,etc.} or even a modern cartridge guns! The challenge and the romance of yesteryear and my ancestors is the whole reason alot of us do this so I say if your up to the hard work go for it! Heck I might have to try it myself!! GOOD LUCK!!! Buck

 

[slowpokebr549]

I don't know about flinters, but I have taken two does with my ROA. That being said, this was in heavy timber near a natural funnel that traveling deer almost have to go through.Both were shot withing 20 yards, broadside, standing still.One was small and a .457 ball over a cylinder full of RS pyrodex dropped her nearly in her tracks. Two years later I shot a big old doe in the same spot with a buffalo ballet and 30 grains of 3f.She ran about a hundred yards and died. It was really hard to shoot that old doe, she was looking right at me and my pistol was not cocked. I had to hold the trigger down and SLOWLY cock the hammer.I think that Mykeal has a legitimate point. It would take lots of practice and nearly ideal conditions to pull off a flintlock pistol kill.It could be done, but I would make sure I already had a deer in the freezer before I tried. But,who am I to talk, I am practicing with an atlatyl for the fall.

 

[oneeye]

I have hunted from treestand, groundblind, and stalked whitetail deer for most of my life with bow and arrow, we use wild game as one of our main sources of meat. Not bragging just proving a point,I have killed more deer in my life than I could ever begin to count! While I have to agree that deer are very nervouse animals, I have also put as many as 2 wooden arrows from a self bow through one from as close as 8 yards and the deer not know that he was even shot! We also raise and butcher our own cows and hogs that we kill with a .22cal. without a problem! I have knew a guy that hunted deer with nothing but a .22cal. when I was a boy! All this to say yes I agree tht it would be a challenge on the hunter, but not as impossible as some make it sound! In my opinion if you used a .50cal. or bigger found the best load and practiced stalking and shooting
{or sitting quietly in a stand} and estimating your effective range, You should have no problems. As far as ethics go, I can shoot a deer with a river cane arrow with a knapped stone point from a indian style selfbow that shoots less than 200 fps and it will expire within 30 seconds as long as
I do my part and place the arrow where it needs to go! I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers here as that was not my intension at all, I just know that what he is asking about is very possible if he does his part in preperation even though it may be alot of work and a challenge! But wait isn't that one of the reasons we use black powder in the first place insted of one of those wanna be muzzleloaders {inline} that shoot that wanna be powder {pyrodex,etc.} or even a modern cartridge guns! The challenge and the romance of yesteryear and my ancestors is the whole reason alot of us do this so I say if your up to the hard work go for it! Heck I might have to try it myself!! GOOD LUCK!!! Buck

Buck, your background closely mirrors mine. This is why I found the comments on the flintlock pistol to be interesting. I too hunt with selfbows only for bows. I figure if I can get close enough with stickbows and get drawn undetected at close range, shooting a BP pistol should be more than possible. I am really interested in trying a BP pistol out this fall. Thanks for the encouragement.
Dan

 

[buck1]

Please let me know how the atlatal hunt goes I think its pretty cool to do things the way our ancestors did! My hats off to you for putting that much of yourself into a hunt! :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[slowpokebr549]

I can hit what I'm aiming at at about 15-20 yards, the problem is all the movement involved in throwing.The current topic brings that point to the forefront. It is hard to be ready with a bow or not scare a deer with a slow ignition. I can throw an atlatl spear hard as heck, it realy penetrates, I am just worried about getting a deer to stand still long enough.I hunt for the sheer joy of it, I have not killed a deer with a cartridge gun in five years. If our intrepid hunter with the trapper starts out with that kind of handicap, a 30.06 will seem like a surefire deathray to him on his next hunt.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Slowpoke and buck1, I tip my hat toyou both :hatsoff: :v

Britsmoothy.