Traveling Around country with BP?

[Paul_R]

Yeah it's pretty confusing here in California. You can walk into a store and purchase as much BP as you want. No permits but you have to show ID and state that it's for sporting arms ammunition. Ammunition is exempt from limits.

From what I can find, anybody that has been charged for possessing over the "one pound limit" has been found using BP for other than sporting arms ammunition. Like making fireworks or some kind of illegal/destructive device, ect.

 

[Paul_R]

BTW Zonie, thanks for encouraging me to re-read that link. Obviously I missed a few points thinking it was all vehicle code related. Kind of embarrassed but a little bit smarter! Ok maybe not smarter, just a bit more aware.... :redface:

 

[buzz]

Thank my lucky stars i live in Nevada but i just did a quick search of CA laws as i got invites to go some shoots and reading this thread got me to wonder so many version to the BP laws and i read on one law even gifting BP at the range is a crime omg CA is so messsed up

 

[MSW]

discretion ... if you're discrete, nobody will put you in a position of having to explain ...

just sayin'

 

[Eljay]

Yeah, just to clarify for anybody who's still confused. California has regulations with different limits for
1. Retailers with or without permits.
2. Transportation with or without permits.
3. Storage at home.

It is not illegal to PURCHASE normal quantities of BP or to USE normal quantities of BP. Most of the people in Los Angeles seem to buy it at one of the ranges there. You can drive around with 5 pounds in your car without placards or permits. But there is this stupid line in the health and safety code that says you can only have a pound at home (and 20 of smokeless). It's not often enforced, but there it is...

At some point I need to try to figure out the legislative definition of ammo that applies, since loaded ammunition doesn't count in this. So if you loaded up some BP cartridges you could keep more at home...

Oh - and I've only heard of one guy getting convicted of this, and I think he also had more than 20 pounds of smokeless. It's clear it's not exactly a LEO priority but if I had 10 pounds delivered to me I wouldn't be mentioning it on the Internet, you know?

 

[Eljay]

OK, found the guy I was thinking of. Thomas McKiernan. Originally arrested for "possession of assault weapons, possession of illegal ammunition, and possession of explosives."

The guns were legally configured but he eventually pled guilty on the explosives charges.

He was charged thusly
1 PC 12303 F Possession of Destruct Device 03/02/2007
1 HS 12305 F Explosive in possession 03/02/2007
2 PC M12280(B) M Possession Assault Weapon 03/02/2007
3 PC M12280(B) M Possession Assault Weapon 03/02/2007
4 PC M12280(B) M Possession Assault Weapon 03/02/2007
5 PC 148.2(1) M Interfere W/Fire Dept. 03/02/2007

note that second one - HS - that's the same health and safety code we've been talking about. Meaning he didn't fall under the exemptions.

BUT the thing is I keep seeing conflicting numbers on how much and what kind of powder he had. Initial news reports said a bunch of "black" powder but I think most of it was actually smokeless.

 

[Paul_R]

Didn't you spread enough FUD on calguns? It doesn't apply to ammunition. That's why it's not enforced and on the rare occasion it does get enforced it's because some idiot used it as an explosive.

So as much as you seem to want the one pound limit, it doesn't apply to ammunition. BTW the BATFE defines powder as ammunition.

 

[Eljay]

That guy didn't use it as an explosive, it was just in his house.

Believe what you want to believe, but if you believe loose black powder is already "ammunition" and therefore exempt why would they then immediately have a section saying that powder intended to be loaded into ammunition or in the case of black powder directly into small arms is exempt up to a particular weight limit. I'm sorry but that just makes no sense.

 

[buzz]

Laws also change as per caliber you have from what i have read
Wont be taking my cannon's into cali just yet but lomng arms with supplies yes

 

[Eljay]

There's some language in there about the exemptions being for small arms .75 caliber and less.

That being said there are people with larger canons around. I don't know if they have permits or are just relying on lax enforcement and a bit of discretion (in both senses of the word - they don't go blabbing about it too much in public and they hope they run into sensible LEOs).

 

[Paul_R]

Laws don't change per caliber buzz but it's probably a good idea to leave your cannon a home! :grin:

P.S. don't believe everything you read about California. Between the haters and the homegrown regulation junkies you're gonna get bombarded with...well you know... :wink:

 

[Eljay]

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Ammunition_and_Black_Powder

"(a) Smokeless powder is intended only for hand loading of small
arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(b) Black sporting powder is intended for loading of small arms or
small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less."

 

[Paul_R]

I believe you just said black powder is small arms ammunition... :grin:

 

[Eljay]

It says it's exempt up to a pound if it's intended for the LOADING of small arms or small arms ammunition.

I know you shot a muzzleloader for the first time this month and you bought a ton of black powder and you're trying to convince yourself that you're not going to get in trouble for it, but at this point I can only assume you're yanking my chain and you don't actually believe what you're posting. I'm done here.

 

[Paul_R]

:hatsoff: Adieu