Trigger Sear Arm Height

[Joemolf]

I’m with Ian on this one. You don’t have to make that trigger plate mechanism work. First, draw out the angle needed for the sear to engage the trigger bar. Then buy or make a trigger with plenty of material to engage the sear where it needs to. File off the yokes from the trigger plate and pin the trigger into the stock. A 1/16” drill stock is fine and is usually concealed by the lock and side plate. This way you determine the trigger geometry, not pre-fab inlets or parts.
Good luck and I look forward to seeing the progress!
-Steve

Thanks Steve the tricky part is laying out the geometry. I located the sear pin and the sear screw center on the lock plate side. Im cleaning up the barrel to reference off the touch hole and then the lock pan top back edge which is shown in recreating the American long rifle. I ordered a trigger from track but that won’t be here until the end of the week hopefully. I certainly need to get the pivot point significantly higher to get a decent trigger pull. Do you or anyone know if anyone has provided pictures of the line laid out on a stock. I did a search yesterday on the forum for single trigger installation no luck. I feel pretty ignorant that tis is a problem for me. Lol

 

[Joemolf]

Yes. This is a common defect with most single trigger plates having integral lugs. Draw an imaginary line from the bottom of the sear arm through the center of the sear pivot screw, place a long piece of masking tape along the outside of the stock at this exact angle from about where the touch hole is until it starts to spiral around the wrist. Pencil a line along the edge, through the middle of the sear arm hole in the stock. Put your trigger assembly beside the stock and observe the angle of an imaginary line drawn from the center of the pivot pin to the contact point on the trigger when the trigger bar touches the sear bar. You want those two lines to be as parallel as possible and the trigger pivot to be about 1/4" to 5/16" up the line directly toward the sear screw from the contact point on the bottom of the sear bar. I hope that made sense. The book "Recreating the American Longrifle" that's available from all the MZ supply stores and elsewhere in a brief internet search has an illustrated explanation of this. The book is well worth the cover price when read.

Ian sorry to bother you I just wanted to mention I marked the stock as you noted. The RCLR book uses the bulster top edge of the pan for a reference point but my sear swivel point would not align with the sear arm. The ref you gave me touch hole works better. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed. I have no problem with the angles and all but it would be nice if they identified with a legend what each represents. It’s just me no one else I guess ever asked. You don’t have to explain. I spoke to track no real answer but after looking at the plans again it shows the aft of the trigger plate bent downward. This will allow for the lugs to go deeper. But right now I’m not sure I want to do that; I first have to figure out what that is going to look like in the end. I don’t want to remove anymore wood until I have everything. Interesting track sells just the trigger it called the Isaac Haines trigger LOL for pinning and a separate trigger plate. I ordered that trigger as well heck I’m already broke what’s another 8 dollars. The fella John I spoke with recommended another publication builder of Green borough or something along those lines. Id like more info on how to layout the pin for the trigger location. That’s the part I’m missing obviously you need to know at what point to drill that hole.
Thanks

 

[Joemolf]

These are the lines I came up with.The lower line runs through the center of the sear arm and then through the center of the sear pivot point. The top line is from the center of the sear arm pivot point and then through appropriately the center of the touch hole. I was not sure if you wanted that line too. So once I get this trigger is it along the bottom line I would drill the pin hole for the trigger to pivot on? I think I get the angle part but totally clueless as to where to drill the hole through the stock for the pivot point?
Thank you all kindly!
Joe

 

[rich pierce]

I do not find this so complicated. I have no idea what these lines are. Mark the circle in the lock inlet where the head for the sear screw lies. Pin the trigger on the back edge of the circle between 8 and 9 o’clock.

Basically anywhere in the area of the sear screw head is fine. Don’t draw lines. It will confuse you and everyone else.

 

[Joemolf]

I do not find this so complicated. I have no idea what these lines are. Mark the circle in the lock inlet where the head for the sear screw lies. Pin the trigger on the back edge of the circle between 8 and 9 o’clock.

Basically anywhere in the area of the sear screw head is fine. Don’t draw lines. It will confuse you and everyone else.

LoL that simple? There are instructions up the ying yang for installing a double set trigger but not one for locating the pin for a single trigger. There are numerous trigger styles by styles I mean the shape of the trigger sear plate; square, angled blah blah. I’ve heard many complaints from people with single triggers to heavy to light too much free play. I think that’s the reason double sets are more popular. So I’m using a stock that is a cheater stock it’s supposed to be precision inlet for the barrel a Silier lock and the trigger plate assembly to work; not even close and I get pre inlet’s require more work than one might think. I have no problem with that. Okay as to be expected not all the parts go together and you have to come up with a work around. So what could be simpler than hanging the trigger on a pin? I think the geometry is kind of important to know but not a show stopper for me. I may be looking in the wrong places. You are the first one to say the pin gets located aft of the sear screw at the 8 or 9 o’clock position. So that being said where do I drill the hole in the trigger on center inline with the trigger itself? Or can it be positioned forward or aft I imagine affecting the hang angle how do you control trigger free play?? I’m asking because I don’t know and have been unsuccessful in finding information. I thank you for what you provided here. But I still need to think about the trigger plate and the relationship between the trigger plate and the trigger; adjusting trigger play which is essentially fixed. I like very much your input. Care to elaborate more on this. I assume you make your own triggers? Recreating the American Long Rifle I think misses the mark here on installing a single trigger especially locating the pin itself. Anyway I think I can figure the rest out. Last question what are the differences between 8 & 9 o’clock position?
Thank you kindly!
Joe

 

[J.D.]

Thanks Ian! I’ll post up suggested pictures later today.

IMHO, cut the lug off, but keep the plate. If you don't have access to the "Recreating the American Longrifle" book, there should be a couple of tutorials on the various forums with instructions on how to make a single trigger, and how to locate the pivot pin. A properly located trigger will provide a nice, light, let off. The trigger set up you currently have, will be a bear to pull, even if the height of the bar is increased.

Watching the Kibler Colonial kit, assembly video will give you an idea of the proper location of the trigger pivot pin. It will also help to control the slop of the trigger by cutting a notch on the rear of the bottom of the trigger bar, to bottom out on the rear of the slot in the trigger plate. If I remember correctly, Jim Kibler explains the proper amount of trigger travel, and how much play the trigger should have, in relation to the sear bar and the top, rear, of the trigger plate.

 

[Joemolf]

IMHO, cut the lug off, but keep the plate. If you don't have access to the "Recreating the American Longrifle" book, there should be a couple of tutorials on the various forums with instructions on how to make a single trigger, and how to locate the pivot pin. A properly located trigger will provide a nice, light, let off. The trigger set up you currently have, will be a bear to pull, even if the height of the bar is increased.

Watching the Kibler Colonial kit, assembly video will give you an idea of the proper location of the trigger pivot pin. It will also help to control the slop of the trigger by cutting a notch on the rear of the bottom of the trigger bar, to bottom out on the rear of the slot in the trigger plate. If I remember correctly, Jim Kibler explains the proper amount of trigger travel, and how much play the trigger should have, in relation to the sear bar and the top, rear, of the trigger plate.

Thank you JD I will watch today!

 

[rich pierce]

LoL that simple? There are instructions up the ying yang for installing a double set trigger but not one for locating the pin for a single trigger. There are numerous trigger styles by styles I mean the shape of the trigger sear plate; square, angled blah blah. I’ve heard many complaints from people with single triggers to heavy to light too much free play. I think that’s the reason double sets are more popular. So I’m using a stock that is a cheater stock it’s supposed to be precision inlet for the barrel a Silier lock and the trigger plate assembly to work; not even close and I get pre inlet’s require more work than one might think. I have no problem with that. Okay as to be expected not all the parts go together and you have to come up with a work around. So what could be simpler than hanging the trigger on a pin? I think the geometry is kind of important to know but not a show stopper for me. I may be looking in the wrong places. You are the first one to say the pin gets located aft of the sear screw at the 8 or 9 o’clock position. So that being said where do I drill the hole in the trigger on center inline with the trigger itself? Or can it be positioned forward or aft I imagine affecting the hang angle how do you control trigger free play?? I’m asking because I don’t know and have been unsuccessful in finding information. I thank you for what you provided here. But I still need to think about the trigger plate and the relationship between the trigger plate and the trigger; adjusting trigger play which is essentially fixed. I like very much your input. Care to elaborate more on this. I assume you make your own triggers? Recreating the American Long Rifle I think misses the mark here on installing a single trigger especially locating the pin itself. Anyway I think I can figure the rest out. Last question what are the differences between 8 & 9 o’clock position?
Thank you kindly!
Joe

It’s that simple.

 

[Joemolf]

It’s that simple.

Good man Rich thank you again!

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Rich is correct. Moreover, it it just as simple positioning double set triggers. On those simply focus on positioning the front trigger to give it a good feel like a simple trigger but just make sure the rear trigger lever will hit the sear bar on the lock. The only differences from installing a simple trigger are you have to leave a little space between the sear and front trigger lever so the levers can pop up a tiny bit when set and you can go back with the front trigger only as far as the rear lever lets you so that it still will hit the sear when fired.

dave

 

[Col. Batguano]

You're going to want the trigger blade to engage the sear bar about 1/4" from the center of the pivot pin of the trigger assembly. That will give you a pull weight right around 3-3 1/2 pounds. Closer than that will give you a lighter trigger, but more trigger creep. Further than that, a heavier pull but with less creep.

Deepening the inlet would be ok. That will let you thin out the breech and lower fore stock area to help get you a slimmer looking gun. Most pre-inlet stocks come with webs that are around 1/4" which makes things a lot harder in getting a slim look. I like webs around 1/16" in the breech, and 5/32" at the muzzle which makes achieving a slim look much easier.

With a set trigger the matter is somewhat complicated in that you have to position the trigger so that tripping the set trigger gives you 100% reliability. The further the sear bar is from the pivot point of the set trigger blade, the more velocity it will have and better ability to trip the sear. It all depends on where the pivot point for the set trigger blade is. If it's a single set trigger there is only 1 pivot point. Double set triggers often have 2.

 

[54ball]

Personally I think you are almost there with your original lugged trigger plate assembly.

Go just a little deeper with the inlet..... not much
Remove the trigger plate from the assembly and peen the top of trigger plate.
Peen, file and fit.
You may get there just by peening the plate to meet the sear bar.
I think you are really close since the trigger will trip the lock.
I think that trigger assembly will work with some persuasion.

 

[Joemolf]

Personally I think you are almost there with your original lugged trigger plate assembly.

Go just a little deeper with the inlet..... not much
Remove the trigger plate from the assembly and peen the top of trigger plate.
Peen, file and fit.
You may get there just by peening the plate to meet the sear bar.
I think you are really close since the trigger will trip the lock.
I think that trigger assembly will work with some persuasion.

Thanks I’m on hold until this weekend. I’m going look at it all closely. I’m thinking i may be able to remove wood and lower the trigger plate a little further hence lowering the trigger. I will see where it ends up and lastly I going to solder a small piece of steel and see if that gets me there. Otherwise I will attempt to fit the single trigger pinning to stock. I’ll get there one way or another. Thanks for your reply!

 

[Joemolf]

Well good news I received the Haines trigger and plate from TOTW and another nice book; The Gunsmith of Greenville County. It has a well written chapter on installing A Traditional Trigger. I find it more comprehensive and detailed than Recreating the American Long Rifle. Before I do anything else I’m going to see if I can get the original trigger assembly to work. This new book covers the type of trigger assembly I originally purchased but I am torn because the Haines trigger Track sent me is a nicer looking trigger. Thank you all!

 

[Joemolf]

I do not find this so complicated. I have no idea what these lines are. Mark the circle in the lock inlet where the head for the sear screw lies. Pin the trigger on the back edge of the circle between 8 and 9 o’clock.

Basically anywhere in the area of the sear screw head is fine. Don’t draw lines. It will confuse you and everyone else.

I received many good inputs from the gang. Yours Rich for pin placement appears to be in line with what is shown in the gunsmith of greenville county. Thank you for that!