triple 7 in rifled musket

[jacko]

Papabang,
That seems to be the ticket. I'm going to give the Triple 7 a try. I've read that its sulfur free and is better for the bore than Pyrodex which has a high sulfur content. I've read also that most shooters find T-7 to be more accurate.

 

[jacko]

Flash pan Dan,
I've put a hundred rounds through my present nipple with very little wear. I bought 10 of these from Peter Dyson (gunsmith to the royal British family. I think that perhaps a lot of Whitworth/Volunteer shooters are shooting heavy loads for long distance target shooting (the Volunteer rifle is rated to handle 130 grains of powder). Heavy loads, I understand, will burn out a nipple quickly. I shoot mostly at 100 yards using only 70 grains of powder. I guess that's why my nipples last longer. On a related note, I bought a dozen Treso ampco nipples from "The gunworks" in the U.S. and found them extremely difficult to remove after 30-40 rounds. The Dyson nipples remove easily.

 

[necchi]

I believe that we both agree that thorough cleaning is essential regardless of what you use.

There's truth to that, Thanks for the clarification.
I must agree that T7 will not clean-up with just a wipe or two like some of the subs claim.
Like true BP the rifle does need to be cleaned daily after shooting.
T7 does contain "salts" that if left alone, will corrode a barrel as quickly as BP.

 

[Jason Lewis]

medic,
I forgot. You asked about the load. I use 70 grains Pyrodex RS

sounds like your load is good, why do you want to switch powders? btw, you have definatly done your homework. i was under the impression that you were a new long range shooter.

have you stretched your rifles legs yet?

 

[Jason Lewis]

Flash pan Dan,
I've put a hundred rounds through my present nipple with very little wear. I bought 10 of these from Peter Dyson (gunsmith to the royal British family. I think that perhaps a lot of Whitworth/Volunteer shooters are shooting heavy loads for long distance target shooting (the Volunteer rifle is rated to handle 130 grains of powder). Heavy loads, I understand, will burn out a nipple quickly. I shoot mostly at 100 yards using only 70 grains of powder. I guess that's why my nipples last longer. On a related note, I bought a dozen Treso ampco nipples from "The gunworks" in the U.S. and found them extremely difficult to remove after 30-40 rounds. The Dyson nipples remove easily.

that's because pyrodex isn't swiss, there is a definate differance in burning with swiss being a sporting powder. as for difficult nipple removal, just put a wrap or two of teflon tape on it, you will never have a stuck nipple again.

 

[Jason Lewis]

most of us shooting long range rarely shoot more than 90grns

 

[Jason Lewis]

I have a P.H. volunteer you have a recipe for that one. Ill swap my mince meat cookie recipe :grin:

deal, you'll find either the lyman volunteer or whitworth mold is a pretty good bullet being the voluteer likes a lighter bullet than it's whitworth cousin. i'd also use an 1/8 felt over powder wad separated from the base of the bullet with a veggie wad. as for powder i'd start with 2F swiss and 70grns or so. there's not a need to shoot more than 90grns even for 1,000yrds. oh, get a platinum lined nipple too.

that's where i would start.

 

[jacko]

Medic,
Yes, I did a lot of research before buying the rifle. I'm normally a pretty impulsive person but the Volunteer was expensive so I wanted to be sure that ours would be a lasting relationship. As to why I want to change powders, I have read that Pyrodex has a high sulfur content that can degrade the bore. T-7, on the other hand, is advertised as sulfur free. Also, I've read several posts online in which shooters speak of an improvement in accuracy after switching from Pyrodex to 777.

 

[jacko]

Medic,
In answer to "Have I stretched my rifle's legs yet?" I plan to shoot at 100 yards and fiddle with the process until I feel quite confident at that distance then move out to the next target bank at 200 yards. This may or may not happen in this lifetime. Also, I'm pretty sure I'll one day cave to the temptation to chuck a few rounds out there.

 

[Jason Lewis]

if you get an aperture front sight like a baldwin or a kluskins it will really help at the longer ranges. (not that 200 is far, but it still helps. ) as for the sulfer and bore degradation you clean after shooting anyway so why worry about it? you're already shooting a pretty good group personally i'd stick with what is working.

 

[William O.]

Papabang,
That seems to be the ticket. I'm going to give the Triple 7 a try. I've read that its sulfur free and is better for the bore than Pyrodex which has a high sulfur content. I've read also that most shooters find T-7 to be more accurate.

I don't think Pyrodex has any sulfer in it but I know traditional black powder does. If I'm wrong about Pyrodex then someone please correct me. I found the difference in the amount left behind from Pyrodex to be far greater than Triple 7 but I don't know which, if either, is more corrosive. At any rate, if I could not get Goex or another traditional BP then T-7 would be my choice.

 

[mb3]

most of us shooting long range rarely shoot more than 90grns

I my load for a 577 minnie at 250 yards is 60gr FFF.

 

[Jason Lewis]

most of us shooting long range rarely shoot more than 90grns

I my load for a 577 minnie at 250 yards is 60gr FFF.

pretty good for a minie, but 250 is still "short" range in the target world. the brits shoot enfields to 600 and 800. long range shooting with the .45 and .40 target rifles is 800-1200yrds using big flat bases or cup based conical bullets.

 

[canemminor]

I'd like to put in my two cents about he BP vs substitue BP corrosiveness issue. When I was working in the gun trade I would recieve a number of muzzleloaders each fall to clean. Usually the bore was in bad shape which I atributed to the owner not cleaning it since the previous year. Almost always when I would ask, they would say the used Pyrodex (that was all that was avaiable other than real BP then) I spectulated that the guys shooting real BP knew all about the need to clean and did so. The guys shooting Pyro. seemed newwer to the sport and I 'm guessing that someone convinced them that since they were not shooting BP, it wasn't as important to clean the bore.
I tried Pyrodex and did not like it. To this day I shoot the real stuff(BP) and the rifle that I have been shooting for 30 years still has a smooth crisp bore that shoot better than I can hold it.

 

[cynthialee]

I know that if you take the time to clean it right that pyrodex is not to bad on the gun.
My Hawken came from an ol' timer who shot nothing but pyrodex out of the rifle for over 20 years. The bore was in excelent condition when I got it. The first black powder the gun ever fired was put in it by me.

 

[Oldhickory]

Yes pyrodex contains sulfer and the barrel needs to be cleaned with a liberal application of vinegar as well. This neutralizes the acid formed
from burning pyrodex. Hodgdons has recommended the use of vinegar in the past. I prefer to use
Pyrodex select in my Smith Carbine.

 

[Zonie]

Have fun with your vinegar but I'll pass on putting it into my barrel.

Vinegar is an acid and acids and steel don't get along with each other.

In my opinion, lots of water with a bit of soap will clean up black powder, Pyrodex and 777 powder fouling just fine all by itself.

 

[Oldhickory]

The vinegar is used as a neutralizer in the cleaning process followed by more hot water and cleaning solution. vinegar is washed out completely, then
bore wipped dry and a liberal coating of gun oil
applied to the barrel. When sulpher is burned and
moisture gets to it, then it becomes sulphuric acid
in your barrel. Much stronger than vinegar.

 

[paulab]

How can an acid neutralize an acid?